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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 604 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice (Scottish Government Priorities)

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

It would be useful to have one of the officials come in on the equipment, which I am unable to name, and whether that would help the situation. I cannot give a commitment to reinstating that policy, because there may be human rights implications. I imagine that there probably would be, but in the spirit of consensus, I am willing to consider Russell Findlay’s suggestion.

I know that these proceedings will be watched or, if not, the Official Report will be read afterwards by the Scottish Prison Service. I would imagine that that suggestion is something that has occurred to the SPS, but if it has not, should we not consider the possibilities? In the spirit of a positive suggestion being made, I am very grateful for that and we will treat it seriously. It may be that we cannot do it for the reasons that I mentioned, but we will certainly consider it.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

As you suggest, I will let Graham Thomson answer part of that. We have agreed to the thrust of what is proposed, but the bit that we have a concern about is the code of conduct that will be used in relation to the extraction of data from devices. We should see that before we agree to it. We have seen a draft version, as has the Northern Ireland Executive, but we want to see the final version before proceeding and giving our consent. I think that that is the situation.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice (Scottish Government Priorities)

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

The first and usual caveat has to be, as Neil Rennick has said, that the courts and prosecution authorities decide on that; we do not. People get very nervous when politicians try to tell the courts what to do—other than through legislation, as we are entitled to do.

I am happy to look at that particular case and come back to Fulton MacGregor.

One problem during the pandemic—I do not know whether it relates to that case—was that cases that involved more than one person were substantially delayed because of the Covid implications of getting numbers of accused into one room. Even if the court system gave priority to certain types of case, that was sometimes limited. The situation is better now than it was, because we have more capacity. However, it may account for what has happened. In any event, I am happy to come back to Fulton MacGregor on that individual case if I have not already done so or if there is anything that I can add in the light of his questions.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice (Scottish Government Priorities)

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

I will let Neil Rennick answer that, but it is worth pointing out first that, to have carried on with some of the disposals would have been a Covid threat. I reiterate the point that the decisions that were made—not solely by me, although I imagine that I voted for them, as perhaps we all did—were made in the knowledge that we were trying to balance the different risks.

I do not know whether Neil Rennick wants to answer the specific question, although I imagine that the answer is no.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice (Scottish Government Priorities)

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

I would be happy to hear from that individual about those issues. It would be useful to get that information.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice (Scottish Government Priorities)

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

I think that we do not have information on that because, perhaps surprisingly, the funding comes from the equalities portfolio. I think that the £5 million that was to be allocated in the first 100 days has been allocated. Obviously, justice has an interest in the issue, but the allocation was handled by equalities ministers.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice (Scottish Government Priorities)

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

It is very good that we have the scheme, which, for those who might not be aware, gives victims of crime and, in certain circumstances, their close relatives greater rights to information about the status of an offender. We have legislated to make more victims eligible. In 2014, we extended the criteria to include victims of those serving more than 18 months’ imprisonment instead of only victims of those with prison sentences of four years or more. In 2015, we extended the criteria further to allow certain information to be given to victims of offenders who are sentenced to less than 18 months in prison.

In relation to the numbers, we have agreed that we will bring together all the relevant partners to review the victim notification scheme and to determine whether further improvements can be made. That move—alongside the previous measures that were taken to introduce and expand the scheme, our commitment to establishing a victims commissioner and some of the other comments that I have made—shows that we very much have the interests of victims at heart. Of course, it is always for the victims and their relatives to decide whether they participate in the scheme.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

Yes, although, as I said, the former Lord Advocate expressed concerns because of the interrelationship with his functions. However, if the code of conduct is sufficient—we have had an assurance about that from the UK Government, and it will come back to us in future—and if the final version reflects what is in the draft, it should not be an issue for us.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice (Scottish Government Priorities)

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

On what we are doing, the committee did an investigation into that in 2018. Since then, we have put another £117 million into community justice services each year, plus a further £550,000 to incentivise bail supervision services—bail obviously being the flip side of remand. We have also put in another £1.5 million for bail support for women each year.

I reiterate the important point that this is not just about legislation. I think—I imagine that the committee will know this better than I do—that there is also cultural adaptation, as well the legislation, that we have to consider.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice (Scottish Government Priorities)

Meeting date: 1 September 2021

Keith Brown

That is exactly right. The other side to that is the people on the other side of the video camera—the families who can make contact online who would find it difficult otherwise, either because of the need to travel or because Covid is a barrier. It is not just about the prisoner. The response that you will sometimes get is that it is soft justice for a prisoner to give them a phone or to have these televisual conversations, but there is the other side of it as well. Going back to the point that was made previously about remand, it is about the effect on not just the individual who is on remand but their family, so your point is correct. You are right that that is, in part, a response to Covid, but we should look at these things.

Prison officers will tell you that there are benefits to that. There are also dangers around phones and other information technology equipment, with regard to maintaining the proper regime in prisons. Being aware of the dangers is important, but we should look at how we can do that. Thinking on the hoof, why should we not look at educational incentives being delivered in that way as well? That could be done more safely than might otherwise be the case and, I imagine, it would be possible to get more specialist educational opportunities for prisoners if they could do such things remotely. We should look at some of these innovations for the longer term.