The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 503 contributions
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 7 December 2022
Keith Brown
Yes. There is no way that it can be other than an approach that is taken forward by the UK Government. The powers are all reserved powers that rest there. It is just the interface with the justice system in Scotland that we are concerned about.
Any system must be based on the principles of justice, and I have outlined why we think that that is not served by the current proposal. It is for those who want to initiate this to come forward with an amended proposal, if they want to do so, to see how it can be achieved without undermining human rights and the position of the Lord Advocate. Justice is a broad concept, however. People need to feel that justice is served. To do that, you have to observe other principles, such as the independence of the judiciary and the fundamental nature of human rights.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
I understand the point that Pauline McNeill is making, but she also started her comments by saying that she knows that I cannot comment on some of those things. Whatever else it was, the decision was taken by an independent Crown Office, so she knows the constraints around what I can say, but she also knows the process for accountability that is in train for that. If there is a subsequent inquiry, that will also be independent. That is the reason why I am not able to say more at this stage.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
If there is a public inquiry, some people would term that as a process of accountability.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
That has been established in the First Minister’s responses in the chamber on a number of occasions.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
I am grateful that you acknowledge the pressures. You mentioned the idea of a cap. There is a cap—there is a cap on all that we do in the sense that we have the block grant, added to by whatever tax that we raise here and other sources of income. Therefore, that cap exists and has always been there. You are right that the question is how to marry things up within those pressures. I have no intention of overseeing a budget for the police force that results in 4,000 officers leaving. Despite press reports to the contrary, we have a very stable workforce in the police in Scotland—much more so than is the case in other parts of the UK—and there is real interest in applying for senior positions in the police force here.
On the point about situations where the police do not turn up for things, that has happened in many communities south of the border. In some communities south of the border, there has been no investigation of burglaries and other crimes for over a year and there is no intention to hold those investigations. We do not intend to oversee such a situation. However, I know from the discussions that I have had with the Scottish Police Authority and the police that they want to ensure that their model of policing is up to date and fit for going forward, rather than always looking back.
It is worth pointing out that the police start from a very strong basis. A police constable in Scotland gets about £5,000 more per year when they start than those elsewhere, and every rank up to assistant chief constable is paid higher in Scotland than elsewhere. We also have some of the lowest-ever recorded levels of crime. Therefore, the police start from a strong position and they do not intend to yield that position.
Based on the discussions that I have had, I think that there will be reprioritisation. Cybercrime is a real challenge, and the police will want to do more on that. There might also be a reconfiguration with regard to how the police want to deal with violence against women and girls. The position will develop over time, but the police will not have that level of fall-off in officer numbers—at least, there will not be a net fall-off of 4,000 officers. We do not intend to see that happen at all.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
Yes, I think that it will remain in operation, and no, of course I am not happy when there has been a service failure. Those failures have been well publicised, and I have raised them with both the SPA and the chief constable when they have happened.
However, the contact assessment model that is now used is very effective when it is used properly. That is probably borne out by the fact that in Scotland—I think that I am right in saying—the number of calls that are answered within 10 seconds is around 10 per cent higher than it is elsewhere in the UK. The rate for the proportion of calls that are answered in under 10 seconds currently sits at around 79.9 per cent, in comparison with 68.3 per cent for the rest of the UK. That should not be the only bar, however, and we acknowledge that the rate has to be higher. Nonetheless, the rest of the UK is a useful comparison, because many of the same pressures apply.
We have had the HM Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland assurance review into the contact assessment model for call handling. I do not deny that it identifies issues, but it also identifies a number of real successes. We welcome Police Scotland’s plans to introduce the new digital contact platform, which will help to strengthen both the 101 and 999 services. Once again, I highlight that those are operational matters for the chief constable, and oversight of them is provided by the Scottish Police Authority.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
It is not a new idea that you can achieve efficiencies if you build something new according to modern standards and if you do it in the right way, not least because you can also make it much more efficient in terms of the climate change challenge. The proposed prison in the Highlands—the replacement for HMP Inverness—will be our first net zero prison, so yes, of course, we can make efficiencies. For a number of years, we have had a programme of renewing what is, in essence, a Victorian estate. We are going through that process. The business case is developed for each proposition that we have.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
That is a very good point. Obviously, members have been talking to the police. The police will tell members about the frustrations that they feel about the time that is tied up in court, sometimes for cases that do not happen.
Neil Rennick can say more about the current pilot in Dundee, Hamilton and Paisley. As the need to address that issue is so urgent, we have said that, at the very earliest point at which we see promising outcomes from that to do with the way that cases are managed, we want to roll those out across Scotland. That is part of the discussions that we have had with the chief constable. It might be worth hearing a bit more about the detail of that from Neil Rennick.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
That is the point that we are making in relation to the pilot. The normal course of a pilot would be to conduct it, analyse it, see its impact and benefits and then, if that is the decision, roll it out. We are not doing so in this case because of the pressures that Fulton MacGregor has mentioned.
I hear the same from police officers; they are frustrated at having to spend time sitting in court or in anterooms at the courthouse for cases that are sometimes not even called when they could be doing other police work. The chief constable has made that point to me. The pilot will be rolled out in advance of the longer time period that we normally have for pilots.
On the second point, I think that I have already mentioned a couple of times that closer working between the blue-light services was, apart from anything else, one of the outputs from the Grenfell inquiry. However, it is obviously the case that more can be done there. We are giving active consideration to how we can make that working more efficient in a country of Scotland’s size, not just between the ambulance service and the police but with the fire service.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2022
Keith Brown
I am not aware of that happening, but perhaps Donald McGillivray will know.