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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 December 2025
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Displaying 788 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 25 September 2025

Keith Brown

I will come back to the budget in a second, but I will first jump back to the discussion about the Edinburgh festival and so on. It strikes me that I have never seen Edinburgh as busy as it was this year—at least, I have not seen it as busy since the 1980s. It seemed extraordinarily full. Of course, there were the AC/DC and Oasis events and so on. I know that you are not directly responsible for this, but are you getting feedback on the impact of all of that? For example, it seemed as if the Americans were back in numbers for the first time in many years—local hotels have shown how busy it was as well. Have you had any feedback on the impact of the cultural activities in Edinburgh over the summer?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 25 September 2025

Keith Brown

This is my final question. In your first exchange with Stephen Kerr, you mentioned the extent to which the increased budget, which is very welcome, may be soaked up by additional costs that the sector is facing. Two of those come to mind: one is last year’s promised reduction in energy costs, which turned out to be an increase in energy costs; and the other is the impact on organisations of increased employer national insurance contributions.

What can you say about the scale and effect of those additional costs? The rise in employer national insurance contributions has been a huge—and unforeseen—cost. What are you able to say about the impact on the organisations that you are trying to support of additional costs that have been imposed from elsewhere?

09:30  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Keith Brown

I am not sure that it is my experience that people know that. They might know the name of the health board. In my area, they would know that it is Forth Valley NHS Board because the hospital is called Forth Valley hospital; that is probably why they would know that.

You said earlier—I forget how you termed it—that there is an attempt to make sure that the standard of service that people receive across the country is the same. That is often called for in relation to local government, which ignores the fact that there are 32 different mandates in local government but that is not the case in the health service. If you are trying to achieve, quite reasonably, a standard level of service for everybody across the country, is that not another negation of the idea that we need to have 22 health boards?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Keith Brown

My last question is about comparative evidence. What comparisons do you carry out in various areas? The obvious comparisons would be with Wales, Northern Ireland and England. We have talked about it in relation to attracting the right number of candidates to go on to NHS boards. What are the lessons that could be drawn from what happens down south? Apparently, as we heard earlier, the lesson to be drawn in Wales is to do what Scotland does. What comparisons do you do with elsewhere in the UK to give yourself a sense check of the issues and how well you are dealing with them, particularly in relation to staffing and getting the right personnel in?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Keith Brown

If it is not too much of a surprise, I will hand back to you, convener.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Keith Brown

You gave an example about singling out a candidate for being non-meritorious. Nobody wants to get into that situation. It is not good for the candidate, either.

I have a separate point on NHS appointments specifically. You might not want to answer this question, and I would understand why if you did not. Is the proliferation of NHS boards part of the reason that we struggle to fill all of them with the right calibre of candidates all the time?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Keith Brown

It would be really useful to compare neighbouring countries. That should be more than what you are able to say about the links that you have with elsewhere. There is a need to look at performance and at the issues that are faced, not just in this area of appointments. That seems to be an obvious piece of work that would be useful.

Also, I agree that we are often the last to see the merits of the things that we do here in Scotland. We tend to concentrate on the problems.

My last question is about what you have been saying about incivility. That is a huge issue. We had a situation last week in Parliament where the refusal to accept an amendment to a justice bill has resulted in a number of members being accused on social media of favouring child rape. That is how bad it is getting here now. Many members have cameras and police patrols around our houses these days because we have received death threats and so on.

I agree with you that incivility is a present problem, and I was interested in the work that you are doing with others in that regard. It is important that you speak up publicly about it. That would not be to say whatever I want you to say but to say what you found. I have a view that perhaps part of the reason that people do not come forward—I think that you alluded to this—is that they have seen how people in public roles can be treated. Unless people and trusted actors like you also speak up about the situation and not just those who are affected by it directly, such as members of boards, Parliaments and councils, it will be hard to turn the tide.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Keith Brown

I did not really expect that, but there you go.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Keith Brown

In what you have talked about, you have referred a couple of times already to accountability. If the public watch First Minister’s question time every week—I am sure that you will have to do that as well, whether you want to or not—all that they will see is questions being put to the First Minister, quite legitimately, about issues in the health service. Where do you think they see the accountability of 22 different health boards? Do they see that at all, or do they see it as the Government being responsible?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Keith Brown

It is just that, in my experience, if somebody has an issue with a health board or with health services in their area, the last people they go to will be the health board. They might access the complaint system, or they might go to councillors or MSPs, but the health board does not feature. Unless it is something like the closure of a hospital, the health board does not feature at all. That is my point. Is the health board a needless layer? I suppose that it is difficult for you to comment on this, because it is down to Government policy, but does the current configuration of 22 health boards, a number of which the public do not even know exist, add to accountability in any way?