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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 November 2024
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Displaying 1467 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

There are two aspects to that question. One is about the adaptability of public services so that they can be used in the digital environment. Great improvements have been made, but there is a way to go. Ministers have been clear that we are too far behind the private sector on developments in that regard. The private sector is significantly ahead of the public sector in relation to the availability of such provision. That is one priority.

The second aspect is about ensuring that we overcome the digital divide so that people are able to use technology to gain access to public services. The connected communities initiative is making significant progress in that respect, and I welcome the steps that have been made.

Through those two channels, Scottish Government funding is available to address those questions.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

I will certainly consider that point. It has been interesting dealing with my constituency case load on the recent census, which, for the first time, has been predominantly undertaken digitally. Some of my constituents were concerned about not being able to do that and asked about getting paper copies. That tells me that we must be constantly mindful of the importance of ensuring that both options are available to individuals. If the bill does not have adequate safeguards in that regard, we should be prepared to consider that.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

There is a difference, convener. The measures to which you refer are ones to be used during the course of a pandemic. The power would enable ministers, through regulations, to put particular monitoring responsibilities on public authorities.

On the obligations for preparedness, public authorities will take forward work, as part of their routine work under existing statutory arrangements, to ensure that we are prepared for all resilience challenges that we face. We revisit those issues regularly through the Scottish resilience partnership, and we take them forward as part of the wider work that we undertake with public authorities to ensure their preparedness for such eventualities.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

It is important that we continue to take actions to support those who are very vulnerable. I understand why some people want the removal of the requirement for face coverings, although I have to say that, in my own humble opinion, it is hardly the most inconvenient thing that we have ever been asked to do as citizens, and it is something that can be done to help and protect those within our society who are much more vulnerable. The Government will certainly be encouraging people to continue to wear face coverings voluntarily in appropriate locations.

The Government has spent significant amounts of time promoting the distance aware scheme. It needs to continue to be promoted, and we will do that over the course of the forthcoming period to ensure that there is as wide awareness as possible about the merits of the scheme, which is critical in providing reassurance to and promoting understanding among members of the public.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

On the first question, the exam diet will go ahead—that is the approach that has been taken. On a situation where a young person is unable to sit an exam because of Covid, there are routine arrangements in place to address the implications of that on a pupil-by-pupil basis. No pupil will be disadvantaged by those arrangements, and it will be a matter of engaging with individual schools to ensure that arrangements can be put in place to support young people who might find themselves in that situation. The Scottish Qualifications Authority will work with individual schools to ensure that no pupil is disadvantaged in that respect.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

The difficulty will not be solved by putting travel arrangements in place. Professor Leitch might contradict me, but I do not think that I am wrong to say that the difficulty is caused by the fact that it is the Pfizer vaccine that is being administered. The Pfizer dose comes in a larger block than other vaccines and therefore cannot be broken down for use in GP practices. That is why individuals may have to go to centres such as Pitlochry, which I appreciate is some distance for people living in the Rannoch area. I have dealt with constituency concerns about that. It is because of the nature of the vaccine. Professor Leitch may want to add to what I have said.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

I will invite Professor Leitch to add to my remarks in a moment. It is important that people present for healthcare in the appropriate context and at the appropriate time. For some people, that will mean presenting very early when they have emerging symptoms of a potentially acute and challenging condition. Throughout the pandemic, we have maintained cancer care, and the message has been that the health service remains open for people should they require it. However, I accept that that does not fully address the reluctance that Mr Whittle mentions. I think that people are nervous about going to hospital because of the risk of contracting Covid.

Fundamentally, the matter can be addressed only by the forum in which we deliver healthcare. It is about ensuring that we meet each individual’s needs in their own communities as much as we possibly can. Measures such as hospital at home are designed to ensure that we provide care literally as close to home as we possibly can for individuals.

Professor Leitch might want to add to what I have said.

11:00  

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

I understand that the position is that masks will not be obligatory in communal areas but that wearing them will be recommended as beneficial for maintaining some protection.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

Convener, thank you for the opportunity to give evidence on the Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill. First of all, I would like to thank the many individuals and organisations that have submitted views at the committee scrutiny stage in response to the call for evidence.

Last week, the Parliament voted to extend key provisions of the Scottish and United Kingdom coronavirus acts to September 2022. The bill that we are considering is about what should happen thereafter and proposes to carry forward around 30 important temporary measures. In line with the Government’s commitment to expire or suspend temporary provisions that are no longer necessary, and the need to report on them every two months, I can confirm that more than 45 temporary measures that were previously enacted have now expired.

The measures in the bill fall into three broad categories: powers to counter future public health threats; the embedding of practical public service reforms that have demonstrated their value, irrespective of the public health position; and extended temporary measures to manage the impact of Covid, specifically on the Scottish justice system.

Provisions in the first two categories fall within the committee’s scrutiny remit, and I have followed the stakeholder evidence with interest. It has, of course, been put to ministers that it would have been better to have split the bill, but there is a good reason for the Government being minded to progress with a single piece of legislation. For the most part, measures in the bill across all categories exist in temporary legislation that is now confirmed to expire in September. They all update and equip the statute book in sensible ways, as part of learning lessons from the pandemic. They were all consulted on as a coherent package in a full 12-week public consultation that took place between August and November last year, and the measures in the bill collectively support the Government’s Covid recovery strategy and the recently updated Covid strategic framework.

In the particular case of public health protection proposals, it has been put to the Government that those future powers are not needed, now that Scotland is transitioning from baseline Covid requirements in law to guidance. I disagree. The move brings into sharper focus the important distinction between having appropriate powers to hand to respond to future public health threats, which I consider to be in the public interest, and using those powers.

The Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, which has taken a close interest in the bill, published its stage 1 report on Tuesday. I will consider the detail of its recommendations closely, but I am happy to signal, as I did when I appeared before that committee to give evidence, that I will look to work constructively with the committee on issues such as the made affirmative procedure. I am happy to consider where constructive improvements can be made to the Government’s proposals and I look forward to the committee’s questions.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

John Swinney

Again, that issue is at the heart of the discussion on the bill. The question is whether we think it appropriate to put legislative change in place at a very fast pace when a pandemic arises, as the Parliament had to do on two occasions in the spring of 2020. The legislation was handled on a very swift timescale; indeed, complex legislation was put forward in a matter of days.

It is a well-expressed view of the World Health Organization that countries should have appropriate measures and mechanisms in place to enable them to respond swiftly and appropriately to a pandemic. The Government has reflected on that as a lesson from the pandemic, and I think that that point has also been made to the committee by legal academics. Therefore, there is an opportunity for us to consider in a slower timeframe what that range of powers could look like and what powers could be enacted, should we face that situation.

Essentially, from my perspective, the nub of the matter with regard to the bill’s principles—especially in its early parts—is ensuring that we have a legislative framework in place that enables us to think in advance about the types of legislative changes that we might need to make and how we can make them. That is essentially what the bill proposes to do.