Seòmar agus comataidhean

So, examinations should not be so much about the regurgitation of facts, with no underlying purpose other than as an exercise in recollection; they should be about the promotion of better understanding, rational analysis and the ability to think for oneself. Is that the sort of thing that examinations should try to achieve, rather than fact memorisation?

I picked up from reading your paper that a greater emphasis on and inclusion of vocational education and training at secondary school, at least in the first few years, would be a desirable option to consider. Is that a fair representation of one of your recommendations?

Thank you.

I do not know whether I have put it better than you. Incidentally, I think that W B Yeats nicked his quote from Socrates, but there we are. It is just a random reflection.

I am grateful to both witnesses for their answers and their willingness to take a constructive approach. However, I want to make a couple of points.

Stephen Boyle said that, with regard to the attainment fund, there would be a further look at hidden poverty and deprivation in rural areas to find out whether there is more inequality that needs to be addressed by additional funding and whether the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission, as advisers on financial performance, should include in their criticism of the Scottish Government the point that more needs to be done on that. I welcome that, but the point that I am making is more basic. It is that inequality is inherent in the system of cost allocation because it costs more to provide the same services in an area of sparse population. More buildings are needed and there are smaller rolls so the cost per head is obviously greater.

I contend that inequality is a systemic issue, and I did not get the impression that either witness accepted that point. I read the report prepared by both bodies, which is entitled “Improving outcomes for young people through school education”. I am not necessarily a top-grade student—I never detained the judges’ time much when they made decisions on prize giving—but, in the 149 paragraphs and 49 pages, I can find no reference at all to rural cost issues. The word “rural” does not appear anywhere, as far as my reading of the report over the past 24 hours reveals. I put it to the witnesses that that appears to be a neglected area. It is an omission, a lacuna and a gap.

On a constructive point, I urge the witnesses to take the matter away and look at it again to see whether their bodies’ approach needs to be amended. Although Sharon O’Connor is correct that they are not policy-making bodies, their role is essential to good policy making and their advice informs it, as I know from my 14 years as a minister.

Good morning to all our guests. I represent Inverness and Nairn, the city and the town, and I have done so for 22 years. Most of my constituency, however, is rural. In fact, Highland Council covers an area that is nearly the size of Belgium and 20 per cent bigger than Wales—it is 10,000 square miles or, if you prefer, 26,000 square kilometres. The point is that the costs and challenges of providing public services, including education, in a largely rural authority are considerable. Indeed, 98 per cent of the land mass in Scotland is rural, as is 17 per cent of the population, so the point is not unique to the area that I represent.

As far as education is concerned, there are 203 primary schools and 29 high schools. Having been around the block a few times in parliamentary terms, I think that I can safely say that politicians from every party feel that the needs of rural Scotland—particularly the costs of providing services, especially in education—are, at best, perhaps not sufficiently understood and, at worst, neglected.

Do Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission feel that sufficient regard has been had to those issues in their work?

I will pursue the issue further, both generally and more specifically, if I may. I will give a few examples. A high school in my area, Grantown grammar school, has an excellent record. I have attended prize givings—if that is what they are still called—and have seen the success that the pupils, teachers and parents have achieved by working together. However, a systemic problem that they and many other rural high schools face is providing all the relevant subjects—such as all the science subjects—as well as other subjects off the mainstream curriculum. If there is no physics or chemistry teacher, how can a child in rural Scotland have access to the range of careers and university places, such as in medicine, for which advanced higher success in those subjects is a sine qua non for access? How do we prevent rural inequality from being systemic? I stress that the topic has been raised with me over the years, although relatively infrequently. I am trying to find out what regard the Accounts Commission and the Auditor General pay to the issue.

I have a different general point to make, but I might leave it until after I hear the answer to my question on the specific issues.

As well as the universality of provision, which can be dealt with in various practical ways—such as teachers visiting schools other than the one in which they are permanently based, and using other sharing and swapping mechanisms, difficult though they are to organise—the second specific issue is the endemic challenge of repairs and renewals to the 203 primary and 29 high schools. Although some success has been achieved recently in the allocation of funding, for which I am very grateful—not least for the replacement of Nairn academy in four years—that leaves a huge backlog of draughty, old, inadequate buildings, often from the 60s, when the common sense of the construction world when putting up the buildings seems to have momentarily departed the planet. The problem is shared in perspective across all political parties and among those who have none. A great many senior independent councillors would make the point that I am making.

Do the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission feel that they have really given sufficient mind time to those two specific matters?

Thank you, convener, but I did not indicate that I wish to ask a question at this point.

Good morning to the Deputy First Minister and his officials. Obviously, all of us in Parliament and throughout the country wish for survivors of this appalling abuse to receive redress payments, although we know that the payments will in no way compensate for the ghastliness of what they have been through.

I want to ask the Deputy First Minister about the standard of proof that is required in the process, given that the task is an inherently difficult one. As I understand it, part of the reason for the legislation was that the requirements for taking a case through the civil courts, where it is necessary to prove the case on the balance of probabilities and with corroborated evidence, were too high a threshold, and that underlay Parliament’s decision, which we all support, to provide another route—namely, the redress payments scheme.

Section 18 of the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Act 2021 says that the abuse

“must have occurred before 1 December 2004.”

That means that any applicant will be making an application in respect of events—horrific though they were—that occurred more than 17 years ago. How will the Deputy First Minister balance the imperative of ensuring that the purpose of the act is achieved by those who have suffered from abuse receiving appropriate levels of payment under the law that Parliament has agreed to with the real risk that applications of a fraudulent nature could be made? Can he give the committee, either now or subsequently, information on what measures will be put in place by the Scottish Government and by those who, under part 4 of the act, have responsibility for determination of applications for preventing fraud, and therefore ensuring that public money and money from others goes to the intended purpose and not to any who might seek to abuse the scheme?

I thank the Deputy First Minister for that detailed answer in relation to the standard of proof, which of necessity has to be lower than in the civil courts, and the steps to be taken to protect the public purse. I am grateful for the assurances that have been provided. It is an inherently sensitive, delicate and difficult task.