The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 995 contributions
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
Right. Obviously, we need to ask social work what is going on there. Do you have you any ideas? There is a potential human rights issue here. The courts run until 7 in the evening. If someone is taken at 2 in the afternoon and gets the benefit of social work, and someone else is taken at 5.30 and does not, that is a clear omission of the system.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
Good morning. I have two questions: one to David Mackie and one to Wendy Sinclair-Gieben. I will begin by thanking the Howard League for the work that it has done in highlighting not just the remand population, which first drew my attention to this horrendous issue for Scotland, but the conditions in which prisoners have been held on remand in particular. The committee is at one on this, and we have discussed it with the chief inspectorate. It is a situation that we all want to get out of. I just want to thank you for that.
In your submission, David, you say that you would like to see the bill also include provisions for discretion where a case is unlikely to result in a custodial sentence. Can you say more about that? I imagine that you would not know in all cases whether there is likely to be a custodial sentence, but anything that you can tell the committee about how that would operate would be helpful.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
Good morning. Thank you for the evidence so far, which has been really focused and has helped me to understand some key points. It strikes me that the system is not joined up; there is also an issue with resources.
Last year, the committee questioned the remand figures—those are of concern to the committee, and we raised that with ministers. The response was that the bill would go some way to reducing the remand population. I am sure that you what you are saying is correct, but—perhaps this is not clear in the bill—I always understood that to be what we are attempting to do.
You and others have raised a number of issues in which clarity is needed, including around what a public safety test is. We need to get into the detail of that. One of the issues that came up when we visited a court on Monday was whether there would be a public safety test for theft or housebreaking cases, so it is really helpful to hear your comments.
I have a couple of questions for you, Joanne. You mentioned 12-month sentencing, young people and the approach of the Crown. In addition, Fred said that the Crown no longer seems to have discretion. Does the centralised marking system have anything to do with that? I have had concerns about the system because marking is no longer done locally—as you know, it can end up anywhere. There is a real disconnect, with fiscals marking cases from, for example, Glasgow, which I represent, but who do not know the area. I wondered whether you thought that that might be one of the reasons for the decisions that are being made.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
The committee noted that, in one case, where the witness had failed to appear on several occasions, the sheriff asked the Crown whether the witness had been prepared for the trial in the first place, which was obviously a determining factor in the sheriff's mind. I think that the fiscal said, “Well, there are no notes here to tell me one way or the other”. They only have the notes that are in front them. That is helpful to know.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
Thank you. Stuart, do you want to add anything?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
Thank you. Maybe you do not know the answer to this, but my understanding is that fiscals have an individual commission when they are appointed, which is meant to give them discretion, as a fiscal, on behalf of the Lord Advocate. Is that your understanding?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
I was thinking more about looking at the profile of remand prisoners. What would it look like today for categories of offences? What would be the balance between petition cases and summary cases? I imagine that there are more petition cases. What would the balance be between High Court cases and crimes of theft or dishonesty? Are you aware of whether that information is available?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
Wendy Sinclair-Gieben, this might be another question that you cannot answer but, after the visit to the Glasgow sheriff court on Monday, the committee was interested in the profile of remand prisoners and the distinction between summary cases and petition cases. In Glasgow sheriff court on Monday, in summary court, most of the 13 cases that we saw were bail supervision cases. That was the trend for the day. I believe that those figures are available. Do you think that it is important for us to analyse the remand profile to try to understand it? It is still a bit mystifying why, as David Mackie mentioned, the overall remand population is around 29 per cent. It was only one day in Glasgow sheriff court, but, looking at summary justice, the sheriff was very particular about applying that principle of remanding only where there was no other way that the sheriff could go in respect of bail supervision. Will you comment or give us any information on that?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 January 2023
Pauline McNeill
I have a quick question to help me understand a point about the case involving the 21-year-old that you mentioned, Joanne. You said that social work finished at 5.30; did that mean that that person was at a disadvantage?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 21 December 2022
Pauline McNeill
I agree with what has been said. There are two matters to consider. First, there is the substance of the bill itself, which does not seem to have widespread support even in Northern Ireland. I checked that after the last committee meeting. That gives me cause for concern that the subject matter is not really settled—that there is not really a consensus on it. Therefore, the undermining of the powers of this Parliament cannot really be justified, given that there is not a consensus on the essence of the bill among those who have an interest in it and who would be affected by it.
Having argued strongly for devolution even before I got here, I have always been strongly protective of the Parliament’s powers. If we were to hand over those powers for those purposes, I would want to be absolutely sure that we were doing that for reasons that I felt were correct and justified. In this case, I do not feel that way, so I will support the Government’s recommendation that we do not support the LCM.