The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
The Official Report search offers lots of different ways to find the information you’re looking for. The search is used as a professional tool by researchers and third-party organisations. It is also used by members of the public who may have less parliamentary awareness. This means it needs to provide the ability to run complex searches, and the ability to browse reports or perform a simple keyword search.
The web version of the Official Report has three different views:
Depending on the kind of search you want to do, one of these views will be the best option. The default view is to show the report for each meeting of Parliament or a committee. For a simple keyword search, the results will be shown by item of business.
When you choose to search by a particular MSP, the results returned will show each spoken contribution in Parliament or a committee, ordered by date with the most recent contributions first. This will usually return a lot of results, but you can refine your search by keyword, date and/or by meeting (committee or Chamber business).
We’ve chosen to display the entirety of each MSP’s contribution in the search results. This is intended to reduce the number of times that users need to click into an actual report to get the information that they’re looking for, but in some cases it can lead to very short contributions (“Yes.”) or very long ones (Ministerial statements, for example.) We’ll keep this under review and get feedback from users on whether this approach best meets their needs.
There are two types of keyword search:
If you select an MSP’s name from the dropdown menu, and add a phrase in quotation marks to the keyword field, then the search will return only examples of when the MSP said those exact words. You can further refine this search by adding a date range or selecting a particular committee or Meeting of the Parliament.
It’s also possible to run basic Boolean searches. For example:
There are two ways of searching by date.
You can either use the Start date and End date options to run a search across a particular date range. For example, you may know that a particular subject was discussed at some point in the last few weeks and choose a date range to reflect that.
Alternatively, you can use one of the pre-defined date ranges under “Select a time period”. These are:
If you search by an individual session, the list of MSPs and committees will automatically update to show only the MSPs and committees which were current during that session. For example, if you select Session 1 you will be show a list of MSPs and committees from Session 1.
If you add a custom date range which crosses more than one session of Parliament, the lists of MSPs and committees will update to show the information that was current at that time.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1466 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
As you know, written authorities can happen in any area that is within ministerial control—not only this one—and they are issued very rarely. One of the questions that I have about the progress of it is whether it is in the current edition of the Scottish public finance manual or whether it will be and when. It has an impact on other areas. That is why I want to check on that. I went through your report identifying what was partially responded to and what was fully responded to. That area was partially responded to, but was it fully responded to? It will certainly be drawn to the attention of the Auditor General.
10:15Going forward, we accept the committee’s recommendation that confirmation of written authorities should be published on the Scottish Government website. You made a specific request about the clerk to this committee automatically getting such confirmation. That information could be found on the website, but, as the Public Audit Committee, you have specific duties and responsibilities, and I just wanted to check that that will happen should there be a written authority at any time in the future.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
Again, it is about delineating responsibilities. I understand that the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister and the cabinet secretary met with the chair and the chief executive of the nationalised Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow to discuss those issues. In relation to any investment decision, one has to identify what the processes are—as you would expect, because that is exactly what your committee has been doing. Proper processes and due diligence have to be in place to ensure that value for money, public interest and all those matters are addressed. That is what the process is.
I cannot comment. All that I can say is that there is a general and, I think, cross-party willingness for Ferguson Marine to be successful. To reflect on the convener’s point about the workforce, the evidence in your report is that they were positive about the chief executive, who had been talking about the need to get into a profitable situation, to secure more work and so on.
I am pleased that that is the agenda that is being discussed but I cannot comment on how and when the decision will be made on that matter.
10:30Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
Obviously, those were the committee’s conclusions, and it is for the committee to come up with its own opinions, views and conclusions. It is self-evident that islands have been let down—I understand that. As the new transport minister, I have spent the summer meeting a number of island communities and their ferry communities.
Resilience in the fleet is really important. There are other issues in relation to ferries that are more to do with operational management issues, which are not the core function of this committee and which the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee has been dealing with, but I say again that resilience in the fleet is really important. That is why having the six ferries delivered before 2026 will make a big difference. Because resilience is what underpins all of this, those replacements are essential.
Clearly we know of the current delays. We will hear more about that, which is why I referred to the chief executive officer’s regular updates to the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee in relation to where they are with progress on 801 and 802, now known as Glen Sannox and Glen Rosa. Another four ferries are being built in Cemre, Turkey, and are progressing well.
Going back to the first question, I acknowledge the point—it is self-evident. A number of ministers have apologised for what has happened, particularly to island communities. That is self-evident, too. I should say that no recommendation came from the committee’s conclusion in that sense, but what I have said will give the committee reassurance that we take this seriously and continue to take it seriously. As the new transport minister, ferries are definitely one of my main focuses.
I keep having to say this, but I was deputy convener of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, which spent well over a year taking evidence on ferries and then produced a report. I should make it clear that I was not a member of that committee when the report was finally concluded. Clearly, as minister, I will need to deliver on the cabinet secretary’s response. Perhaps that will give the committee an indication of one of the reasons for my being in this post—to focus on that, if that reassures the committee.
On the point about responsibility, the problems that occurred, particularly in the initial stages of the design process, have been comprehensively set out. As this committee and others have identified, there were relationship issues between the two contracting parties that also led to challenges and difficulties. I refer back to the RECC report, which set those out comprehensively. It made uncomfortable reading for a lot of people, but it really set those issues out, and this committee’s report also reflects what the issues and problem areas were in that respect.
I know from its report that the committee has visited the yard—I, too, have had the opportunity to visit on one occasion—and anybody who has done so will have seen the disconnect between the design and the build. The retrofitting that had to take place was not very helpful.
There were other issues along the way. Sometimes it is easier to reflect on things separately. David Tydeman’s response, which this committee will be interested in with regard to spend, identified what he saw as the difficult areas. Latterly, the pandemic was an element that stopped progress, but that was not fundamental to the initial issues. Later in his remarks, Mr Tydeman talks through what he sees as the key areas; a lot of them were design-build issues that arose right at the beginning, with things not being done properly at that stage. That is well documented.
The issue, then, is that we know that improvements are made. That is where your committee’s recommendations and—perhaps more important—some of the commentary in the report come in, along with, quite clearly, the recommendations from RECC in relation to what happens with milestones and so on. I think that this committee’s purpose is to make sure that the improvements have been made and will be made. I reassure the committee that improvements have been made. Some were made even in advance of this committee’s report, and they have certainly been made after it.
Some of what we want to do, particularly in relation to lessons learned, is to pull all that together and identify things. Some of those changes have been made, for example, with regard to the Scottish public finance manual, and we need to make sure that you can identify where some of those issues are. Some of them are for Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd and some are for Transport Scotland.
That was a wide response but I hope that it gives you some reassurance.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
I do not know whether whichever of the officials is most familiar with that can recall.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
Clearly, there are lots of lessons to be learned from the process and from the conclusions of not just your committee’s report, but the Auditor General’s report and the REC Committee’s report.
I think that, reading that exchange now, it is quite clear that the then minister for transport was reflecting factually on what had happened before. There had been instances at the yard, which FMEL would have known about, where things had developed without a builders refund guarantee. That was a reflection. It was not advice as to what would happen in another procurement; instead, it was reflecting on the past.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
Those issues would relate to future procurement, depending on who had that. Therefore, you would be looking at the people who are bidding for the work having that underpinning and guarantee, in which case it would relate to a yard.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
That is why I thought that that was a good recommendation. We want the Government to respond to it. In my detailed examination of your report, as I went through what the conclusions and recommendations were and what we have to act on, that is something that, in my new position—obviously, at the time that you produced the report, prior to my being in post, I would not have looked at it in that level of detail—I feel is a good and useful recommendation, and my officials will act on it.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
Draft press lines are not necessarily the same as meetings or decisions. I can see how that might have happened, but I think that records were kept of everything significant. That is the point. It is about what is significant in terms of decision making and who knew what and when, et cetera. There is far more acute awareness of that now than there would have been previously.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
Again, that is the committee’s conclusion and position. Obviously, it is part of your responsibility to set out your position and your view. You went into some detail about the appropriateness of that with the former First Minister, and you have good evidence as to where things were, which has been laid out a number of times.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Fiona Hyslop
I will need to reflect on the chain of events and the evidence that you have on that. It was not a recommendation to me, as the current Minister for Transport, for action. I do not know whether officials have better recall of it.