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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 November 2024
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Displaying 1138 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Christine Grahame

There are just so many of them.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Christine Grahame

Amendment 71 in my name is supported by Jackson Carlaw. It inserts a new section on publication of information about the process, which sets out a mandatory duty on the registrar general for Scotland to publish online information covering, inter alia, “the effect of” and

“how to make an application for a gender recognition certificate, ... the requirement to make a statutory declaration”

before applying, and

“the consequences of making”

a false application. One of my amendments, which was agreed to, has made a change so that that will not be a criminal offence for 16 and 17-year-olds.

There is also a catch-all—those are useful when setting out such measures—that is about other relevant information that the registrar general “considers appropriate”. All that will ensure that all applicants can easily access information to inform them about their decision to apply for a GRC.

To address a point that Sarah Boyack raised, I have had clarification from the Scottish Government that it remains the intention that National Records of Scotland would signpost 16 and 17-year-olds to appropriate sources of support. Similarly, NRS would signpost all applicants to information on how to make a statutory declaration.

Sarah Boyack’s amendment 128 is, I think, well intentioned, but it is too broad. For example, it says that ministers “must take steps”, but I do not know what that means. It says that applicants should

“have access to appropriate support and information.”

Is that before the application, during the application process or when transitioning? We need more information on what “appropriate support and information” would be.

Some of that has been dealt with earlier in my amendment 39, certainly in relation to 16 and 17-year-olds getting advice, support and counselling from appropriate people, and of course anybody over that age could do so. That would be mandatory for 16 and 17-year-olds, but not for adults. Amendment 128 is well intentioned, but my amendment 71 is much more specific and links to earlier amendments that were agreed to on support and advice at the point when people make an application. To an extent, that has tightened up the bill.

That is all that I have to say, which was enough.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Christine Grahame

Strangely enough, I do not know—I have not gone around lobbying for them. All people in the Parliament are intelligent—I hope—and can see the amendments for themselves. At stage 1, I laid the ground with regard to my intention to propose precautions and support for 16 and 17-year-olds, because I shared concerns that they were being put in the same boat as 18-year-olds. The test is on the committee. You have been listening to the evidence in depth, so I am hopeful that my proposal has hit fertile ground.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Christine Grahame

That is me told already.

I was going to say, “I rise to speak to my amendments”, but I will not be rising. I will speak to amendments 38 to 44 and 46, all of which are in my name and all of which are supported by Jackson Carlaw.

The intention of the amendments is to ensure that, before applying, 16 and 17-year-olds have made use of the opportunity to take advice or guidance or to receive support in making their decision, including considering the implications of getting a GRC. That also relates to an amendment that I will come to later on what the registrar general for Scotland must publish.

The provision, which would be mandatory but is not overly restrictive, would require the person to confirm to the registrar general that they had discussed the issue, either with an adult whom they knew personally—for example, a supportive family member or friend of the family—or someone who had a role that involved giving guidance, advice or support to young people, such as a teacher, counsellor, doctor, guardian or LGBT youth worker. There is a whole range of people. In order to allow for flexibility in individual circumstances, amendment 39 would not restrict the form of the consultation—I am not setting out a list here.

The cabinet secretary has already undertaken to ensure that 16 and 17-year-olds will be offered and encouraged to take up a conversation with National Records of Scotland about the process and effect of a GRC. It is important that, wherever possible, the confirmation should be part of such a conversation, which would take place during the reflection period. I invite the cabinet secretary to confirm whether she agrees with that approach and, indeed, with my amendment.

The offence in the bill of making a false application does not apply to the proposed confirmation. There is no desire to criminalise 16 and 17-year-olds or require them to provide proof.

Carol Mochan’s amendment 117 tries to do much the same thing as my amendments, but it is rather heavy handed. It would put in law a requirement for support services for those applying, but that is unnecessary, as all those services exist just now. In any case, when it came to the registrar general, it would still have to be confirmed that the person had actually taken advice; that would be mandatory, and the onus would be on the person in question. After all, this is a big decision. In short, given that the advice and support are already there—and I hope that Carol Mochan forgives me for saying this—I do not think that amendment 117 is necessary, and I think that mine is better. Of course, I would say that.

The intention behind amendments 42 and 43 is to extend from three to six months the minimum period of living in the acquired gender before an application can be made. I understand Rachael Hamilton’s concerns, which is why I am putting in other precautions for this particular age range—specifically, for 16 and 17-year-old applicants. However, the time period that I have set out would be the very least; they might take longer than that, and so might 18-year-olds.

09:15  

The amendments would introduce two options into the required statutory declaration: either an applicant must state that they are 18 or over and have lived in their acquired gender for at least three months; or that they are 16 or 17 and have lived in their acquired gender for at least six months. That will provide additional assurance that applicants have had the time to fully understand the change that they are making and that they are confident that they really do want to live the rest of their lives in their acquired gender.

Such a measure will not introduce an additional delay for anyone who has already been living in their acquired gender for at least six months. They will have been doing so, well ahead of turning 16, so they could still apply on their 16th birthday and, after the three-month reflection period—which we must not forget—obtain a GRC.

I will make passing reference to Martin Whitfield’s amendments 120 and 124. Amendment 120 is just a consequential amendment, as are my other amendments. I should point out that we are not in collusion, by the way; we are just sitting next to each other—by mistake. [Laughter.]

If I can be modest, my amendments are better, as they put the onus on the young person to specifically confirm that they have discussed and understand their application. It is a big decision for them, so we need to ensure that the onus is on them to have done all that. I believe that that is a better approach than that in Martin Whitfield’s amendments, which put the onus on the registrar general to be satisfied that the applicant has the “capacity” to understand. The word “capacity” is difficult in law; for a start, I do not know whether Mr Whitfield means legal capacity or some other kind.

A discussion with the registrar general will take place, whether face to face, online or whatever, and at that time, they can decide whether the person really understands what they are doing. As I have said, the word “capacity” is a difficult word to use in law. Perhaps Martin Whitfield should have said “fully understand what they are proceeding to do”, instead. However, he did not, and that is why I do not like his amendment.

I think that I have spoken to all my amendments, have I not?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Christine Grahame

I remind Rachael Hamilton that Jackson Carlaw supported my amendment. That is cross-party consideration; we considered the issue and came together on it, so it is unfair to say that there has not been cross-party consideration, certainly on my amendment.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Christine Grahame

Forgive me—you will know this if you were listening to the early part of our proceedings—but amendment 39, which has been agreed to by the committee, is on additional guidance, advice and support for young applicants prior to their making an application. That amendment sets out that the applicant must confirm to the registrar general that they have

“discussed the implications for the applicant of obtaining a gender recognition certificate with an individual who—

(a) has a role which involves giving guidance, advice or support to young people”.

Therefore, that is there at the beginning.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Christine Grahame

I thought you might have done.

Meeting of the Parliament

General Question Time

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Christine Grahame

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of whether inflation and any possible reductions to public sector spending by the United Kingdom Government will impact on prospective capital projects in Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale. (S6O-01534)

Meeting of the Parliament

General Question Time

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Christine Grahame

Two such projects in the Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale constituency that spring to mind are the proposed extension to the Borders railway and the redesign and construction of the Sheriffhall roundabout. I know that the minister is going to report on the issue, but can he advise whether there will be any specific impact on those projects as a result of raging inflation following the Conservatives’ mismanagement of the UK economy?

Meeting of the Parliament

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Christine Grahame

On 25 November 2021, in answer to my colleague Colin Smyth, you indicated in your ministerial role that the Scottish Government would extend the scope of the snaring review to include a potential outright ban on snaring in Scotland. Is that still on the cards?