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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 September 2025
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Displaying 1128 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I certainly want their use to be reduced. I acknowledge that it is a matter of live debate just now, and that I need to be cognisant of a range of voices. I know that, for victims, uncertainty is a factor that causes real distress. I am being somewhat cautious because I think that, at this point in time, if we took a more inflexible approach, that would cause further harm and distress, and I therefore think that a more flexible approach is the appropriate response.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

Yes. I would be a bit nervous about an amendment on something so substantive, but that does not mean that there is not merit in pursuing that work further.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

We have a lot more work to do. You are a chancer.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

We have a long journey to go on together, Mr Findlay. We will be pals by the end of it.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I was about to mention Chief Superintendent Derek Frew’s comments, Mr Findlay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I will ask officials to speak on that point, but in part 5 of the bill there is an obligation on all the actors and players in the sexual offences court to be trauma informed. We will discuss that part of the bill later. There is also a desire and a commitment for the judiciary to be trauma informed.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I will always work with members and stakeholders to discuss their concerns. I am always in the business, I hope, of demonstrating that we will look at the art of the possible. That is quite a difficult area—and I say that for reasons of transparency.

Part 3 of the bill is about improving access to special measures. We have heard over a number of years that people in the civil courts have felt far less protected, particularly in and around where domestic violence or abuse is a feature of the case.

11:15  

Our approach thus far has been that where civil protection orders are in place—an interdict or a non-harassment order—or where there are convictions or, indeed, live proceedings, those will trigger the special measures automatically. The court would have discretion in other circumstances. I am always happy to discuss and consider further. I am also aware of evidence that the committee got from the Family Law Association that expressed some caution.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I remember our exchange well, and I can indeed see the attraction or potential benefits of such an approach, bearing in mind that one of the core concerns is the lack of information and the lack of connectivity if different courts have different information and different procedures going on.

I have certainly discussed the issue further with officials. It would be a major and substantive piece of work—I am just being up front and direct about that. That does not mean that there is no merit in exploring it, but it might limit what could be achieved via an amendment. If you are talking about integrating courts in certain circumstances, that would certainly require full consultation with stakeholders and, indeed, with the Lord President, given his unique duties and responsibilities.

We are planning some workshops to look at the issue more fully. There is not the fullest of evidence. There is some evidence on this from the States, but there is not a wide range of evidence. We will continue to look at the issue with our stakeholders in the workshops, which will take place next year.

We would also have the desire to look at the issue in and around court rules. I know that more recent changes to court rules have focused on doing more to get the right information to support earlier action, particularly in family cases. Measures around initial and full case management hearings have been introduced. If there is further information, I would be happy to provide that to you separately.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I am keen to manage expectations, Mr Findlay, bearing in mind some of the discussion that we have had about cost and the need to be in a position to implement legislation. What I do not want is for amendments to be agreed and then, once we have royal assent, for us to be left sitting with the issues of how to implement some of this in practice. It is about not putting the cart before the horse.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I thought that you were going to say something else then.