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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 1119 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

First, Mr Mason, we note your personal reflections as someone who, in another life, was a chartered accountant.

It is important to stress that there was a shared understanding at the time that the bill was introduced. Police Scotland, for reasons that I accept, revisited its position, largely in response to work that it had commenced on reviewing its processes and procedures so that it could better assess the impact on the organisation as a whole of any piece of legislation that is relevant to it. That is a very welcome process, which will be an important platform to build on.

Regarding Police Scotland seeing the bill, call me a stickler, but I would not share a bill in detail before it had been laid before the Parliament and introduced. I just would not do that. However, I stress again that the full policy intent was shared. It was simply the case that information changed and the information that the Government was given changed. For example, the reassessment by Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Federation meant that they came to the view that more misconduct cases were likely, which would cost more in legal costs. That is fairly straightforward.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

I apologise for the length of my answer.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

I certainly accept that the committee is getting its teeth into financial memorandums and framework bills, although let me repeat that this is not a framework bill—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

Yes.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

With pleasure, convener. I can very much give that reassurance. The admittedly increased costs that have now been communicated to the committee represent about 0.2 per cent of the overall Police Scotland budget. The most recent figure for Police Scotland’s investment in the functions of training is around £18 million. I appreciate that the change from what the financial memorandum originally set out to the information that is available now is not insignificant. However, it is manageable in terms of Police Scotland’s overall budget, and we will have another budget round later this year.

One of the reasons why the police budget for this financial year increased by £92 million was to demonstrate the importance that the Government places on operational and front-line policing.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

We have narrated that collective responsibility and the processes that are involved in our collective scrutiny. I am not going to get into a debate about specific bills that I am not in charge of.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

Yes. Because the code already exists and is being made statutory rather than non-statutory, given its importance to everyday policing and its value in relation to, for example, human rights, the previous understanding was that the training costs could be absorbed and the training could be done by being absorbed into existing modules, but Police Scotland has now come to a different view.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

I did not realise that I was here to make people happy, tempting though that is. I will go away and look in more detail at what happened in relation to the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill, although I emphasise that the bill before the committee is not on a par with that bill in terms of size or magnitude, nor is it a framework or enabling bill.

When my officials were here, you mentioned the fact that there are additional risks with framework bills, in that significant decisions are taken further down the line. Therefore, I could see why there would be a case for a different procedure to be adopted with the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill, given its magnitude and the magnitude of public resource to be invested in the new service.

However, the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill is small. It has 16 substantial provisions and three ancillary ones—it is not a massive bill. I absolutely appreciate the change in some columns from zero to not insignificant sums of money. I assure you that that is not how I would have wished events to be, but the cost of the bill to Police Scotland is somewhat small—it is 0.2 per cent of the organisation’s overall budget.

However, I will reflect on matters. I will not make any false promises about providing a revised financial memorandum earlier. After the previous evidence session, I took advice from parliamentary business colleagues. My one concern about updating the financial memorandum now is that we still have this year’s pay claim to come, so there are other potential changes coming down the track.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

Extensive work has been done with Police Scotland—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Angela Constance

I will bring in Mr Bunch in a minute. The facts of the matter are that officials did not know the precise figures until November, so Police Scotland, after intimating—