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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 April 2025
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Displaying 302 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

Absolutely. Thank you. Kay, do you have anything to add?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

Does anyone else want to come in on that?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

That is very helpful, thank you. My next question is on Henry VIII powers. Are they appropriate or inappropriate?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Roz McCall

That is helpful.

I will go to Vicky Crichton, and then to Kay Springham. With regard to the idea of improving scrutiny and accountability in relation to secondary legislation, should we be looking at any safeguards or controls?

11:30  

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

Good morning—it is still morning. There is much that I want to pick up on, so bear with me.

You have highlighted the drafting process. Thank you, Diggory, for doing that. I am picking up from you that it is not drafters who come up with whether something will be framework legislation or whether policy will be enacted through primary legislation. Drafting is just about the morphosis of an idea as it starts to go through.

I asked this question before. Is there, in effect, a line? As you go through the process, do you say, “This has been the conceptual idea, this is what we are trying to do, and this is what the minister is trying to get to. We are building up the bill and moving it forward, and now we’re drafting it. Now it has crossed the line that we have moved it towards. It will stay in framework or skeleton form”, or do you say “We now can see that there is a definite line and we can move this forward”? Is there a process like that?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

Absolutely.

Jessica highlighted earlier that

“producing good legislation takes time”,

which I thought was very interesting. I infer from that that, if there is a speedy expedited process, the chances are that you are moving towards writing what is not necessarily bad legislation, but is certainly not good legislation. Then, there is the genie out of the bottle that is 24-hour news, and the desire of elected officials to expedite the process as much as possible so that they are seen to be doing something. When you are writing legislation, do you feel that there is a possibility that we are moving on a continual conveyor belt of producing what is not necessarily good legislation?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

The joy of going last is that either you are saying what everybody else has already said or nobody wants to hear what you have got to say. I thank the witnesses for all their input. It was very interesting and informative. As others said, we know what the problems are; finding solutions will be harder.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

That was very helpful.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

I will just say happy new year and get that out of the way. Thank you very much for attending today.

I want to follow up what has been a really interesting line of questioning. I am sorry, Professor Whitaker, but I am going to come back to you—I know that you have been doing a lot of talking. In your initial comments, you talked about the difficulty of knowing when this sort of thing crosses the line. Is that basically because there is no line? Do we have this problem because we do not know when a line is crossed? If so, should there be a threshold? Should we state, “No, this is when we have a framework or skeleton bill”—whatever you want to call it—“and this is where we need primary legislation”? Would it be sensible to create a threshold?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Roz McCall

Does anyone else want to come in?