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As far as I know, I am not able to discuss that matter. Ailsa Heine can give more information on that.

That is correct.

CSL is a private, not-for-profit company, which is industry-led and is designed to be funded by industry, so it would not be appropriate for the Scottish Government to fund the company. However, as we intend to go ahead with the scheme in 2025 and as the UK Government has said that it intends to go ahead with the scheme in 2025, there will be a need for a scheme administrator and a need to develop the expertise that we have already developed. It is now for producers in the UK at large to decide whether the smoothest path towards the implementation of a UK-wide DRS would be for them to keep CSL in continuity, which I would encourage them to do. Keeping CSL in continuity would allow that expertise to be brought to the delivery of a UK-wide scheme. It is up to the producers that currently fund CSL to decide on that.

There are two issues with counting on kerbside collection alone to meet the recycling targets. One is that kerbside collections are funded by local authorities, so they are funded by public money. The whole point of moving to the polluter pays principle is that the businesses that profit from damaging the environment, such as by the creation of litter, pay for preventing that damage. Across Government, we are moving to a polluter pays principle. The member will be familiar with the extended producer responsibility for packaging regulations that are being worked through on a common UK level towards making that polluter pays principle reality.

The other issue with kerbside recycling is practical. Kerbside recycling can only drive recycling levels up to about 64 per cent. With deposit return, we are looking at more like 90 per cent. Kerbside recycling for glass is what industry experts call “lossy”. Items need to be handled many times—put in to boxes, tipped into the back of trucks and otherwise handled—which means that up to 40 per cent of the glass is actually lost. Equally, because the glass can be contaminated, it is considered lower quality, so kerbside recycled glass generally is not recycled into bottles but goes into lower-quality stuff, such as aggregate for roads. The whole point of a deposit return scheme is that it increases not only the amount of recyclate, but the quality of that recyclate so that it can be fully circular and recycled back into glass bottles. That is the whole point of a deposit return scheme.

Arrangements between the Scottish National Investment Bank and CSL are a private matter between those two organisations and I am not involved in that.

I am interested in the convener’s saying that there is a “chance” that CSL might be needed in 2025. The UK Government has committed to launching a scheme in 2025 and we very much support that stated ambition. The smoothest path to a successful UK launch is to keep the expertise that CSL has created. It is for industry to decide whether its smoothest path is to keep CSL going until the 2025 launch or to take another route.

All the schemes in the UK will require scheme administrator organisations and the UK Government will ask industry to put together what it refers to as a deposit management organisation. We call it a scheme administrator. The UK Government has said that its timeline for putting in place its DMO is 2024. One can imagine a scenario where CSL and its producers work together using their expertise and investment to apply to be the DMO for the whole of the UK. That is one route forward, but it is for industry to decide how it might want to take that forward.

That is not my position. That is not what I said. I said that CSL has its existing funding, but to go forward it needs to work out what path it is going to take. There are various paths available, but that is for CSL to work out with its producers, who are its source of funding.

Industry will need to decide how it is to comply with regulations. We will lodge amendment regulations saying that the scheme will go live in October 2025 in line with the UK scheme. Industry has to decide how to comply with those regulations. To do that, it has created CSL, so it now needs to decide whether it will keep CSL going in order to comply, or take a different route, such as creating a different body. That is for industry to decide. We as the Parliament make the regulations and industry has to comply with them. The DMOs and scheme administrators are the tools by which industry complies with our regulations.

Certainly, our impact assessment of the deposit return scheme shows that, overwhelmingly, councils will benefit from such a scheme. Overall, it will reduce their costs, particularly for handling litter. I am happy for any of my officials to come in on the benefit to local authorities of the deposit return scheme.