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We move on to questions from Ross Greer that I hope will dive into that theme a little more.

Thank you, cabinet secretary. We now move to questions from members. I call Liam Kerr to kick off.

That was quite a succinct response. I hope that Michelle Thomson is online now, as she will ask the next questions.

Cabinet secretary, you said that no one would disagree with the presumption of mainstreaming and the drive for inclusion, and you mentioned the tribunal. However, in written evidence to the committee, the tribunal challenged that view, saying that

“An inclusive education for those who have additional support needs would be best served by the removal of a bias in favour of a particular type of education”—

on the assumption that that is mainstreaming—and that

“A bias of this type is the reverse of an inclusive approach.”

What are your thoughts on that?

The ASN tribunal also argued that the presumption of mainstreaming should not be grounds for refusing a placing request. Equally, however, Matthew Cavanagh, who is from a specialist school, stated that a specialist setting would often best suit a child. Much of my casework on the topic is about placing requests, when the local authorities that are making the decisions have not even met or engaged with the young person. What are your thoughts on that?

If parents and carers are aware of what is happening with the developments in those schools, there might be more understanding of the placing.

Some schools are repurposing spaces, creating decompression zones or making walls less rattly and crackly to improve sound. Schools can make those sorts of adaptations. That is the avenue that I am probing, cabinet secretary.

Pam Duncan-Glancy has a supplementary question.

I thank the cabinet secretary and her officials for their time. That concludes the public part of our proceedings, and the committee will now move into private to consider the final item on the agenda.

I think that Clair Henderson wants to come in.