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Absolutely. Perhaps reminders of the Presiding Officer’s role and responsibilities, which are always helpful, would form part of the guidance for the scheme.

Another matter that has come up is that there seems to be strong agreement that periods of maternity and paternity leave should be covered by proxy voting. That is common sense. It is where proxy voting in relation to public affairs started.

There is some disagreement about the period of time that should be covered but, following on from what Edward Mountain said, that is a discussion for the member to have with the Presiding Officer. It is wrong to set an arbitrary period that cannot be extended. There is nothing wrong with having guidance about the period of time, but we need to respect the fact that people are individuals and circumstances affect individuals differently. If we cannot be flexible enough to do that, I would be disappointed.

The other area that has been discussed—rightly so—is adoption. In essence, a member is taking a new person into their family. That would be expected to be covered. Obviously, sadly, bereavement also needs to be covered, albeit that it is a sensitive issue and flexibility is needed in dealing with it.

Are we content for those areas to be covered for the trial period, at least?

I agree, and I am conscious that, if a male MSP wanted to take maternity leave—in the way that it can be shared, now—that block of two weeks for parental leave may cause problems. That is why I am relatively comfortable about allowing flexibility, with guidance, because I genuinely do not believe that any of this session’s MSPs would try to abuse that in any way, shape or form.

On what you said about those first two weeks, Bob, it is crucially important that, when a new child comes into the world, both parents, where they are available, play absolutely every part in making sure that that is as easy as possible for each other.

Yes. Thankfully, at this stage, because of the hybrid nature of the Parliament and remote voting, there are a number of ways in which a member can exercise their vote. Proxy voting is about a very small number of members, as Alexander Stewart said; however, having that discussion, and having their vote cast and recorded as they want, is a very important facility.

Does anyone want to raise anything else from the letters?

That is helpful. The committee has strongly backed iterative change with regard to the development of hybrid meetings, and it would be helpful if the trial were to incorporate something that could be looked at in that regard as matters progress.

I know that discussions have taken place about that. The simplest procedure that I have heard discussed is that, during a vote, the person who holds a proxy vote will cast their own vote. Once the voting period is over but before the votes are counted, they will pop up to make a point of order, in which they will point out to the Presiding Officer that they hold a proxy vote and will say how they want to exercise it. Having previously ruminated on a million and one ways in which it could work, when somebody suggested that procedure, it seemed so simple, because that is what we do now if any of the technology should fail during the voting period. Therefore, not only are people in the chamber used to it, but it confirms separately, on the record, how the proxy was exercised. For the purposes of the trial, that is a relatively straightforward, simple way to do it.

Okay.

That was my mistake. Absolutely, I think that eligibility should cover that situation. I also think that we should mention that it should cover bereavement. Again, those situations do not require members to take up a proxy vote, but there would be an opportunity to do so if they wish.

Should the proxy last for four weeks, with the option for that to be extended? Should the flexibility of that be a matter for discussion between the member and the Presiding Officer?

That is very helpful. Thank you.

Let us deal with the pairing question first. A pairing is an agreement between political parties rather than individual MSPs. For MSPs, the role of a proxy is much more personal; it is about choosing someone you trust to exercise your vote.

It is interesting that the bureau acknowledges the fact that proxy voting would be far more transparent than pairing, which appears on no record anywhere. To echo what Edward Mountain said, pairing arrangements are all made in private, behind the scenes. The important element from a constituent’s point of view is whether the MSP who represents them has cast a vote on their behalf. In proxy voting, you can see that and it remains on the record for ever.

I whole-heartedly agree with Alexander Stewart about the support that exists across the chamber for the principle of proxy voting but, as always, it is about the detail; people chop and change, and they may wear different hats at different times.

I agree with Bob Doris that one of the significant areas where there are challenges in getting universal acceptance is in relation to illness. I do not think that it is for a proxy scheme to define “illness”. The people who ask to use the facility of a proxy will be MSPs, who are bound by the code of conduct and by the responsibility that they have to themselves, their constituents and this Parliament. I have a great deal of confidence that MSPs in this parliamentary session will exercise that responsibility properly, but there would be nothing wrong with the scheme highlighting and reminding members of the importance of voting, because, of all the actions that take place in the Parliament, casting your vote is the one that makes the most difference.

I agree with the point about the length of time. The drafting of the scheme will happen behind the scenes, with the clerks, and I agree that that part will no doubt be a challenge. However, the scheme needs to be flexible and it needs to sit within a structure of understanding, so that both the person who wishes to exercise a proxy vote—to approach another member to ask them to be their proxy—and the person who accepts the proxy vote know what the expectations are around that.

We have had a bit of a discussion about length of time in relation to illnesses. I wonder whether it would be easier to understand if we did not define the level of illness that would allow someone to cast a proxy vote but said that if a member feels that they have a serious illness and cannot cast their vote, they should be able to exercise a proxy vote with the consent of the Presiding Officer. Would that be satisfactory?

The verification process—or, in other words, how the proxy vote happens—really needs to be discussed with the Presiding Officer’s office as well, but we are content that the Presiding Officer should grant the proxy, albeit that an administrative process will sit underneath that.

A watching brief might be sensible. There might be some enthusiasm the first time it happens. We will wait and see.

I thank the committee for that discussion and thank those who have been watching. I now close the public part of the meeting.