Seòmar agus comataidhean

I will draw a line under that discussion, but it is interesting that, in the 25th year of the Scottish Parliament, such discussions are very much worth while and need to take place.

That said, I will drag us back to the issue of committees. I look to Ivan McKee to see whether there is anything that he would like to cover as we move to the final part of the session.

Again, I am conscious of the time. I call Stephen Kerr—I highlight the time, I am afraid.

Agenda item 2 is our first evidence session on committee effectiveness. The purpose of today’s evidence session is to get reflections from former conveners on the effect of committee structures, the balance of work and making space for innovation for committee effectiveness.

We are joined by Johann Lamont, who was an MSP from 1999 through to 2021, covering sessions 1 to 5—I think that you were convener of four committees over that time—and Professor Adam Tomkins, who was an MSP between 2016 and 2021 and who convened the Justice Committee. Good morning to both of you. I hand over to you for a five-minute introduction, to give your initial thoughts on committee effectiveness.

Thank you. Your timing was perfect.

Those introductions are incredibly helpful. I hear what you say and the concerns that you have about the legislative process, but I suggest that we park that issue—although other members will perhaps look at it. I know that it is sometimes a challenge to not deal with some of the problems that witnesses throw up, but we want to concentrate on the effectiveness of committees.

Before I throw you to the wolves of the committee on various questions for 10 minutes each or so, I will pick your brains about committee numbers. It is interesting to look back on the previous sessions. We had 26 committees in the first session; 27, excluding ad hoc committees, in the second; 23 in the third; 27 in the fourth; and 29 in the fifth. In this session, we have 17, and the workload of that smaller number of committees falls on a smaller group of back benchers, because—this is not a political point—there is an increasingly large number of members of the Government. It would be helpful to explore your views on that.

Is there a perfect number of committees? I presume that the answer is no. Is there something about committee numbers that either prevents or promotes the effectiveness of committees?

The number of members of committees is also an important issue, and that is something that changes from session to session. This session, we have some large committees and some small committees, whereas, in previous sessions, there were odd numbers of committee members drawn from a narrower range.

Johann, I invite you to comment first, because of your experience of a number of different types of committee. Is the effectiveness of a committee directly affected by the size of a committee and by the amount of work that it is expected to pick up?

Me, too.

Do you think that that has always been a characteristic of all the committees, or has it crept into the Scottish Parliament over time?

Johann Lamont, you experienced those first five sessions of Parliament. Did you feel that, after session 1—when, in essence, everyone was desperate to make the unicameral system work and to acknowledge the value of committees—party politics came into committees more? Did you notice that change, or is it something that is maybe more indicative of certain committees at certain times?

As interesting as this discussion is, I am very conscious of the time and there is still another member to bring in.

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the fourth meeting in 2024 of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. We have received no apologies this morning.

Under agenda item 1, the committee is invited to decide whether to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private. Item 3 is consideration of the evidence that the committee will hear during our session with the Scottish Information Commissioner, and item 4 is consideration of our report on hybrid proceedings.

Are members content to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.