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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 April 2025
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Displaying 1411 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

Sir David, do you want to come in?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

I think that Meg Russell would like to come in.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

Our second agenda item is an evidence session as part of our committee effectiveness inquiry, which is seeking to answer the question of whether changes to the Parliament’s procedures and practices would help committees to work more effectively. In recent weeks, we have launched a public call for views on the inquiry. We have invited consultation responses from committees, the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, political parties and individual MSPs. We have also written to a range of legislatures, asking for information on how their committees operate and evaluate their work.

Today’s session is the first in a series of four oral evidence sessions as part of our inquiry. We are joined by our committee inquiry adviser, Dr Danielle Beswick, who is sitting to my right. Today, we will explore and try to answer the overarching questions of how committees are viewed externally and how we can evaluate their impact.

I am grateful to welcome Gemma Diamond, who is director of innovation and transformation at Audit Scotland; Dr Marc Geddes, who is a senior lecturer in politics at the University of Edinburgh; Sir David Natzler KCB, who was clerk to the House of Commons between 2015 and 2019, clerk of committees between 2008 and 2009 and clerk to the Reform of the House of Commons Committee, which is known as the Wright committee, between 2009 and 2010; Brian Taylor, who is a former BBC Scotland political editor, a columnist for The Herald and a long-time observer of this Parliament; and Professor Meg Russell, who is director of the constitution unit at University College London.

As this is a round-table evidence session, although we will take the usual approach of members asking witnesses questions, we will seek the opportunity for witnesses to have a discussion between themselves and to have an evidence session that is perhaps more open and free flowing than the ones that sometimes take place in committees. There is no expectation that witnesses should answer every question. When the witnesses who are appearing remotely wish to respond to a question or make a comment, they should type R in the chat function or just jump in.

We will move to the first of our facilitating questions, which is about the characteristics of a successful committee. I will hand over to Sue Webber.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

That is why I left it until the end.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

Let me press you on one area. What is the role of the spectacle of politics that we sometimes see in committees? We certainly see it in the chamber. In committees, what are the advantages and disadvantages of that? What is its role and importance?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

I will pursue that point. I am interested in the influential drivers of committee operations. You and Marc Geddes have talked about the relationships and the politicians who sit on a committee, irrespective of how they got there, but we also have our standing orders. We can instruct committees to operate in a certain way, and there has been discussion about the role of conveners, the role of the Government and party balance. Do we understand what would happen if, instead of it just being a case of looking at it and seeing what is operating, we had a stronger set of standing orders or stronger separation between the Government and committees? Is it just the people and the relationships, or is there something about the framework that can assist the relationships and the groups?

I do not know who would like to answer that terribly framed question. I will bring in David Natzler. What is your experience of the interrelationship between the rules and the members?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

Well, I will not apologise for the toughness of the question. Please come back in should thoughts come to you afterwards.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the fourth meeting in 2025 of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. I have received apologies from Ruth Maguire, and I welcome Rona Mackay, who is attending as a committee substitute.

Our first agenda item is a decision on whether to take subsequent items in private. Item 3 is a discussion on the evidence that we are about to hear, item 4 is a discussion on proposed rule changes to the code of conduct and item 5 is consideration of a note by the clerks on the Lobbying (Scotland) Act 2016. Are members content to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

We will simply slip from that point into Rona Mackay’s set of questions, so I hand over to you, Rona.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Martin Whitfield

Before I invite Brian Taylor back in, I will add a further question. Should we be considering media coverage in respect of the effectiveness of a committee?