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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 September 2025
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Displaying 1203 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

So—

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

What information was sent out yesterday? Last week, I spoke to a few stakeholders, who did not know what was happening. This week, the committee received a letter from Victim Support Scotland, which said that, as of yesterday, it still did not have the information that would be available in the information-sharing agreement. Why was it only sent out yesterday? That does not give us much time to have a look at it and raise any issues while we have you here today.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

Good morning. I will start with a question for Ms Medhurst. Do you feel that the Scottish Prison Service is prepared for the early release of prisoners? When did conversations with the Scottish Government about it start?

09:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

On what Rona Mackay said, I totally agree that prison officers do an excellent job and that we need to be concerned for their safety and that of the people in the prisons—we definitely need to look at that. However, this is being presented as an extraordinary measure even though the prospect of emergency release has been present for some time, so it is not really an emergency. There is still a lot more that we need to look at, as I said in my questions. I quoted last week’s witnesses, who said that early release creates a “breathing space” but medium and long-term plans are needed. I would like us, as a committee, to see a lot more on what those medium and long-term plans are, to ensure that we are not back here in another few months, and to get timescales for those plans.

We received another update from Victim Support Scotland, which has also had a lot of concerns. It says in its briefing that, on Tuesday 11 June, no draft of the information sharing agreement was available. I am glad to say that that has now been given out, but prior planning should have meant that Victim Support Scotland and other stakeholders got that a lot earlier. Again, I am speaking to people on the ground who are saying that there was no information available to them. I do not know whether the plans and discussions were happening at a higher level, but the information was not getting down to people on the ground.

We have now heard that there is an actual list of prisoners who could be eligible for early release. Again, however, it might have been prudent to have shared that with some of those organisations so that they could get information together and have more time to prepare for any vetoes. Victim Support Scotland said that it is concerned about the emergency release process and that the governor will have a veto but that it is unclear how informed the process will be. One of the questions that I did not manage to ask in the evidence session earlier today was about the governor’s veto. The veto is to prevent the release of an otherwise eligible prisoner if the governor thinks that they would, if they were released, pose an immediate risk to a specified individual or group of individuals.

Last week, I asked Paula Arnold about the governor’s veto. She said:

“during the last early release, I signed off on only two governor’s vetoes, I think”.

That was that due to concerns outwith criminal justice, such as concerns about housing and so on. She said:

“at that point in time, without the pre-planning that should be in place, the person was not suitable for release so quickly. For example, there might not have been an involvement with third sector or throughcare services, or somewhere for that person to live”.—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 5 June 2024; c 44.]

I am concerned about whether governors are still allowed to use a veto for those reasons or whether they can use it only if the person would cause an immediate risk to a specified individual or group. Again, it is the reoffending aspect that I am concerned about.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

Okay. There are a few other things, but I will leave it there.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

One of my other concerns is planning and preparation, which are on-going. Last week, the emergency release was described as a “breathing space”, but medium and long-term plans are needed. When asked about the future plans last week and what discussions were on-going with the Scottish Government, Phil Fairlie of the Prison Officers Association Scotland said:

“that is not being shared with us. It is not a conversation that we are involved in. The conversation might be going on elsewhere but not with us.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 5 June 2024; c 46.]

Cabinet secretary, you mentioned in your opening statement changing needs and the ageing prison population. We have also heard about the need for halfway houses, supervised bail hostels, GPS monitoring, secure care homes and mental health facilities. However, when asked about that, Wendy Sinclair-Gieben, who is HM chief inspector of prisons, said:

“I would have to echo Phil Fairlie’s comments and say that, if the Scottish Government is taking action on those things, I am not aware of it.”

She went on to say that she had been raising these issues for some time, but that

“I have not seen any written plans or any action planning”.—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 5 June 2024; c 46.]

This is just a breathing space. What are we actually doing? What conversations and actions are taking place so that we do not end up, in another six or nine months, saying that we will have another emergency release of prisoners?

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

I am just aware that we already have a presumption against short sentences and in favour of bail being granted rather than someone being held on remand, and I am thinking about the consequences of that, and about a victim knowing that the prisoner is going to get out of prison anything from a month to six months early. It might be better if the court could say that the person should be subject to electronic monitoring or given a community payback order rather than just being released without any other penalty.

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

The cabinet secretary’s letter says that the process would be used

“if they think that they would pose an immediate risk of harm to a specified individual or group of individuals if released.”

How would that information come to you?

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

A few comments have been made about early release being a breathing space and not much more, and having medium and long-term plans has been mentioned a few times. Have those medium and long-term plans been written down, and are you in discussion with the Scottish Government on those? Do we have medium and long-term plans? Obviously, this is just a breathing space, so what are we going to do to improve the situation for the future?

Criminal Justice Committee

Emergency Release of Prisoners and Other Key Challenges in Scotland’s Prisons

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Sharon Dowey

One thing that has been mentioned is looking at the whole system to see what we need to improve or change. We have mentioned supervised bail hostels, remand centres, what I might describe as a kind of secure care home for some of the ageing prison population, which has a lot of health needs, and perhaps a secure mental health unit for those who have severe mental health problems. Are those things just being talked about or is anybody in discussion with the Scottish Government on them? Is the Scottish Government actually taking action on those?