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David Kennedy of the Scottish Police Federation told us that, in England and Wales, a lot of Lady Elish Angiolini’s

“recommendations are getting turned back. They are now reversing what she recommended, because they have realised that a lot of it does not work.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 8 May 2024; c 47.]

A number of non-legislative recommendations have been implemented. From our evidence, a lot of improvements seem to have been made, and there have been a lot of positive comments. Has anyone done a full review of the impact and benefits that are now in place, rather than pushing ahead with the legislative recommendations? Has anyone reviewed the comments that David Kennedy made about England and Wales to see what the issues were and whether it is still worth going ahead with the legislative process?

I am sticking with the theme of regulations. The Scottish Police Federation told us that the current performance regulations, which came in alongside the conduct regulations in 2014, have never been used. That was disputed by Police Scotland. Deputy Chief Constable Speirs said:

“the conduct regulations were introduced in 2014. Now we are in 2024, they are not fit for purpose, and a number of gaps are restricting our progress, such as the inability to fast track a process; equity or parity of voice at conduct hearings; our inability to proceed without delay, as we have to wait for criminal proceedings to be completed”

and a few other things.

When asked if we needed to get those things into the bill now, instead of having to wait for secondary legislation, he said:

“That would be my ask of the committee.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 22 May 2024; c 41.]

So, the bill is needed.

That is why I was asking whether any instruction would be given to HMICS to review any of what is being done. Given that, as you have said, it will take time after the legislation is passed before anything is implemented, is any work being done just now to speed up the process?

The representatives of Police Scotland to whom we have spoken have told us that they can say what the problems are. Last week, Craig Naylor said that there are lengthy delays for victims who have made a criminal allegation, and that that is a matter for the Lord Advocate. Are discussions being held with the Lord Advocate about whether we can change some of the things that are wrong? Is the Lord Advocate looking at ensuring that, if there is irrefutable evidence that means that somebody should be dismissed from their role, they can be dismissed at that point, instead of having to wait for the criminal proceedings to take place?

I am under the impression that—

Good morning. Section 15 of the bill gives the PIRC the power to review practices and policies of the police in general, and not just in relation to a particular incident. Although the PIRC supports that, HMICS does not. However, when we heard from Craig Naylor last week, he said that, in the two years that he has been in his role, the PIRC has not passed a single policy or procedure of Police Scotland to HMICS for review. Is the section 15 power necessary for the PIRC? HMICS suggested that it could blur responsibilities.

It has been highlighted a lot in the evidence that we have received. I will come on to that in a wee minute, but it looks as if it needs to be examined in great detail.

The Scottish ministers can also direct HMICS to undertake research or inspection activity in relation to any aspect of policing in Scotland. Have you directed HMICS to look at any aspects of police regulations or conduct procedures?

Do you know of any direction that has been given to HMICS to look into any of the policies and procedures of Police Scotland?

That is what I am saying: a lot of that work would fix some of the problems that we have had with the bill.

I will go back to the previous question. I am still quite confused about what we need secondary legislation for and what can just be put into terms and conditions of employment with the police. Is any of the bill needed in order to update and modernise the policy, procedures and regulations of Police Scotland or can it do that outwith the bill?