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My next question is actually about the increase in electric vehicles and battery storage, which you mentioned. Do firefighters have the necessary equipment and training to deal with fires involving those?

I will keep that question for the next panel.

I have a couple of questions on how well the SFRS is adapting to changing demands through training and equipping staff. As was mentioned earlier, the Grenfell statement is coming out today. Is the SFRS aware of all the sites in Scotland that still have flammable cladding? Are firefighters suitably trained to deal with those fires? Given that 10 high-rise appliances have been cut, do we have the right equipment in those locations to ensure that, if the unthinkable happens, the service is prepared?

Do you generally meet all your targets, or is there slippage? If the latter, do those then become targets for the following year? I am asking that because we have been talking about budgetary constraints.

One of my other concerns is planning and preparation, which are on-going. Last week, the emergency release was described as a “breathing space”, but medium and long-term plans are needed. When asked about the future plans last week and what discussions were on-going with the Scottish Government, Phil Fairlie of the Prison Officers Association Scotland said:

“that is not being shared with us. It is not a conversation that we are involved in. The conversation might be going on elsewhere but not with us.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 5 June 2024; c 46.]

Cabinet secretary, you mentioned in your opening statement changing needs and the ageing prison population. We have also heard about the need for halfway houses, supervised bail hostels, GPS monitoring, secure care homes and mental health facilities. However, when asked about that, Wendy Sinclair-Gieben, who is HM chief inspector of prisons, said:

“I would have to echo Phil Fairlie’s comments and say that, if the Scottish Government is taking action on those things, I am not aware of it.”

She went on to say that she had been raising these issues for some time, but that

“I have not seen any written plans or any action planning”.—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 5 June 2024; c 46.]

This is just a breathing space. What are we actually doing? What conversations and actions are taking place so that we do not end up, in another six or nine months, saying that we will have another emergency release of prisoners?

So—

What information was sent out yesterday? Last week, I spoke to a few stakeholders, who did not know what was happening. This week, the committee received a letter from Victim Support Scotland, which said that, as of yesterday, it still did not have the information that would be available in the information-sharing agreement. Why was it only sent out yesterday? That does not give us much time to have a look at it and raise any issues while we have you here today.

Good morning. I will start with a question for Ms Medhurst. Do you feel that the Scottish Prison Service is prepared for the early release of prisoners? When did conversations with the Scottish Government about it start?

On what Rona Mackay said, I totally agree that prison officers do an excellent job and that we need to be concerned for their safety and that of the people in the prisons—we definitely need to look at that. However, this is being presented as an extraordinary measure even though the prospect of emergency release has been present for some time, so it is not really an emergency. There is still a lot more that we need to look at, as I said in my questions. I quoted last week’s witnesses, who said that early release creates a “breathing space” but medium and long-term plans are needed. I would like us, as a committee, to see a lot more on what those medium and long-term plans are, to ensure that we are not back here in another few months, and to get timescales for those plans.

We received another update from Victim Support Scotland, which has also had a lot of concerns. It says in its briefing that, on Tuesday 11 June, no draft of the information sharing agreement was available. I am glad to say that that has now been given out, but prior planning should have meant that Victim Support Scotland and other stakeholders got that a lot earlier. Again, I am speaking to people on the ground who are saying that there was no information available to them. I do not know whether the plans and discussions were happening at a higher level, but the information was not getting down to people on the ground.

We have now heard that there is an actual list of prisoners who could be eligible for early release. Again, however, it might have been prudent to have shared that with some of those organisations so that they could get information together and have more time to prepare for any vetoes. Victim Support Scotland said that it is concerned about the emergency release process and that the governor will have a veto but that it is unclear how informed the process will be. One of the questions that I did not manage to ask in the evidence session earlier today was about the governor’s veto. The veto is to prevent the release of an otherwise eligible prisoner if the governor thinks that they would, if they were released, pose an immediate risk to a specified individual or group of individuals.

Last week, I asked Paula Arnold about the governor’s veto. She said:

“during the last early release, I signed off on only two governor’s vetoes, I think”.

That was that due to concerns outwith criminal justice, such as concerns about housing and so on. She said:

“at that point in time, without the pre-planning that should be in place, the person was not suitable for release so quickly. For example, there might not have been an involvement with third sector or throughcare services, or somewhere for that person to live”.—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 5 June 2024; c 44.]

I am concerned about whether governors are still allowed to use a veto for those reasons or whether they can use it only if the person would cause an immediate risk to a specified individual or group. Again, it is the reoffending aspect that I am concerned about.

Will Pauline McNeill take an intervention?

On that point, the briefing from Victim Support Scotland says:

“there is an extremely short timescale and there is no mechanism to ensure that every victim is notified in advance and offered a support and safety plan.”

It adds:

“this is extremely disappointing as it was one of the key asks from the previous emergency release programme”.

Is Pauline McNeill concerned that lessons are not being learned and that we will be here again in a few months’ time?