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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 893 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Is there still the possibility that you could pull the plug on the two vessels?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Craig Hoy

Good morning, everyone. I want to go back to a question that I would have asked Roy Brannen had he been here. When you were last before us, I asked Mr Brannen whether CMAL had been overruled or whether there was a threat to overrule it, and he said explicitly that that was not the case. However, in a submission from the senior management team at FMEL, they suggest that some degree of overruling took place.

I will quote from that submission at some length, just for context. It states:

“Our chairman met with the cabinet secretary for finance Derek Mackay on the 5th of June 2018 to insist that the Scottish Government intervene to instruct CMAL to take part in an Expert Determination Process”.

The chairman was told explicitly that the Government would not do so. The submission continues:

“Derek Mackay told him that he could not do this because ministers had received a legal letter from the CMAL Board, threatening to resign en masse, if the government interfered with them, as an independent board. Derek Mackay said that this would be politically very damaging for the government, and he could not intervene.”

Mr McColl says that the reason that the Government was not prepared to intervene at that stage was that

“The government had forced CMAL to place the order with Ferguson against their will. We were not aware at the time of the strength of opposition from CMAL to placing the order with Ferguson. Had we known this at the time it would have caused us to seriously question accepting the order.”

Why does Mr McColl believe that CMAL was overruled? Is he misrepresenting, misrecollecting or providing a misleading account of the situation?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Craig Hoy

You can be certain about that, but you are not certain about what those discussions were, because you were not there.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Craig Hoy

He took the final decision.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Craig Hoy

Okay. No minister signed the contract. CMAL had significant concerns, and it raised them with ministers, then it signed the contract. Was CMAL overruled, or were its views ignored?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Craig Hoy

The Auditor General does not think that that paper trail is sufficient.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Craig Hoy

Completely certain.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Craig Hoy

Did she discuss ferries?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Craig Hoy

That would be Derek Mackay.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 26 May 2022

Craig Hoy

I am looking at exhibit 1 in the Auditor General’s report. In September 2015:

“CMAL advises Transport Scotland of the significant risks of awarding the contract to FMEL, and states its preference is to start the procurement process again”.

In October:

“Transport Scotland advises CMAL that Scottish ministers are aware of the risks and are content for CMAL to award the contract to FMEL”.

It is quite clear that either CMAL’s wishes were ignored or they were overruled.