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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
But data is important.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
When we conducted our consultation exercise, we got a huge amount of input. In the previous evidence session, I said that 80 per cent of the respondents said that the PSED was not being implemented, and they gave the committee a lot of information on why they thought that. Before the cake is cooked, will you share with us the ingredients that are going into it?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
When we looked at the feedback from the committee’s call for evidence on the PSED, we found that 80 per cent of the respondents indicated that public bodies do not understand or have a limited understanding of the duty. Such a high figure was very surprising to us. The EHRC’s submission says that
“the setting of equality outcomes”
is
“not always informed by robust evidence”,
which is a cause for concern. Do you believe that it is appropriate for activist organisations to offer guidance that leaves public sector bodies vulnerable to legal challenge?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
Okay. This is my final question.
In your view, to what extent does the Scottish Government’s interpretation of the terms “sex”, “gender” and “woman” make it difficult for public authorities to meet their responsibilities under the PSED? I know that Jennifer Laughland said that the Supreme Court judgment on the For Women Scotland case might provide clarity. Are you waiting until that comes before you can provide extra clarity and guidance?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
You could include education, health, and prisons in that.
I will quote your letter, dated February 2025, to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. In the letter, you highlighted the importance of single-sex spaces and for public sector providers to design
“policies which take into account the rights of all affected protected characteristic groups”.
That goes back to your point about balance. In the EHRC’s view, to what extent has the Scottish Government got wrong the balance of protections between the different protected groups?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
We are talking about the whole thing. You said last month that the policies have not taken
“into account the rights of all affected protected characteristic groups”.
That is a very powerful statement to have made, so I want you to elaborate on which protected characteristics you think have been missed out, if any.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
You felt the need to issue that letter in February
“because of a particular on-going situation.”
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
Before I ask my main question, minister, I want to pick up on something that you said about Police Scotland. You said that Police Scotland is “completely independent”, yet the organisations advising it on equalities policy guidance are, in large part, funded by the Scottish Government. You used the words “dignity”, “fairness” and “proportionate”. I note that there is an organisation called Police SEEN UK, whose views and input the head of HR for Police Scotland would not entertain; Police Scotland would rather have input from organisations funded in large part by the Scottish Government. Given that, I question the use of the word “independent” in relation to Police Scotland. There are huge issues with Police Scotland right now.
I am happy to write separately to you on that, minister.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
I suppose that my key point is that you have stated that Police Scotland is “completely independent”—that is what you said—but on policies in relation to equalities, and, I would add, the implementation of the PSED, it is getting its guidance from organisations that are funded in large part by the Scottish Government. So, my question is: how can Police Scotland be independent?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 March 2025
Tess White
Good morning, minister. I would like to clarify something that you said in your opening statement. It is good that you are providing leadership on the public sector equality duty, and I thank you for that. However, will you wait until the committee has published its report before you draft the guidelines that you said you are going to publish?