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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 April 2025
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Displaying 759 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

Minister, I will build on my colleague Paul O’Kane’s question about non-legislative interventions. You have described to the committee a host of work that is going on. However, you cannot manage what you do not measure. For example, of 181 people in hospital with learning difficulties and complex care needs, 84 were classified as delayed discharges, which is close to half. That is a huge issue. You said that you are struggling to effect change without the bill, but there are some key areas that you are accountable for. The LDAN bill has been delayed and the Scottish Government has finally conceded that the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill is not fit for purpose, and meanwhile the social care sector is in crisis. Therefore, what action is the Scottish Government taking now to ensure that adequate care is available in the community for people with learning disabilities and autism and neurodivergent people?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

But it is not able to do that.

I have two final questions. Following the Cass report, under-18s in Scotland will be screened for mental health and neurodevelopmental conditions, such as autism, during initial assessments for gender dysphoria. The chief medical officer has confirmed that resources will need to be found to increase capacity. Given the exceptionally long waits for autism assessments, what progress, if any, has been made in that regard?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

Earlier, Jacqueline Campbell talked about holding your feet to the fire, and I would like to do so on that issue, minister.

The employment rate for autistic people is only 29 per cent, and you said that more work can be done with employers. I have a constituent who has been waiting years for an autism assessment. She is in work, but she cannot get an assessment, which her employer needs in order to make reasonable workplace mitigations and adjustments. She is in a catch-22 situation, and the fact that she has had to wait years is just not good enough. She is one of the lucky ones, because she is in employment. Jacqueline Campbell is nodding her head, so she obviously realises that that is a huge issue.

I asked my constituent about going private, but she said that she cannot do that because she would then be out of the system. She needs an NHS assessment, but she cannot get one.

Minister, what suggestions do you have for increasing the number of autism assessments?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

At the start of the meeting, you said that we are struggling to effect change without the bill. The view is that you are kicking the can down the road. I accept that they are not simple, but the committee has given you some clear concrete suggestions and examples relating to assessment, measuring and having proper data. I hope that you will take those away and start to effect change as soon as possible.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

Minister, that does not help people who are on delayed discharges and need packages of care or the integration joint boards. However, as you say, we could tussle all day on that.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

I look forward to seeing progress on the situations for those 84 learning disabled people who are in delayed discharge.

You touched on assessments and said that more work is needed. The committee heard concerns about waiting times for assessments and diagnosis that were not addressed in the LDAN consultation. What action is the Scottish Government taking to address a growing demand? You highlighted the huge demand for assessments.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

The issue that you talk about with psychiatrists is huge. There is no workforce plan and the issue has not shifted since I came into this job nearly four years ago.

Suzi Martin from the National Autistic Society Scotland shared with the committee last week that Scotland

“is already falling behind England, where … data on waiting times”

for autism and learning disability assessment

“is collected, disaggregated and published.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 26 November 2024; c 5.]

How can the Scottish Government manage what it is not measuring in relation to assessments?

11:15  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

It would be good if you could look at the issue of assessments, because that is a huge area.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Tess White

As you know, people are falling between the cracks. I will leave that with you.

You mentioned CAMHS. In the NHS Tayside area in my region, the current waiting time for children who have been referred to its neurodevelopmental services is 154 weeks. That is almost three years. We know that children with autism and additional support needs are five times more likely to be excluded from school, but those children feel that they are being left in limbo through no fault of their own. What support is available to those children if they cannot access diagnosis and treatment?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Learning Disabilities, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

Meeting date: 26 November 2024

Tess White

But can that not just happen without those things? It is so obvious that the culture needs to change. Why does it need a commissioner to actually get things done?