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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 April 2025
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Displaying 1459 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

I want to shift the focus a little bit. In the public sector equality duty, three needs are outlined, and the third of them is about fostering good relations. That need is often overlooked; public bodies do not necessarily focus attention on it or fully understand what it means. I am interested in your thoughts on that.

Pauline, I will start with you. Where do you see the fostering of good relations in your work with public bodies on the public sector equality duty? Do they get it? Do they talk about it? Does it feature at all?

12:00  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

The example that you used is one that involves thinking about equality stuff at the end of a budgetary decision process, rather than thinking about the equalities impacts of budgetary decisions as they are being made.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks. Marie McNair wants to ask a little bit more about the reforms, so I will leave her to pick that up, because we need to explore it. I will leave it there.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Would you like guidance to be addressed in the discussions that are happening about the PSED reform?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

I am going to shift focus a bit. A lot of our conversation has been around discrimination and the needs to eliminate discrimination and to advance equalities. Jatin Haria, right at the start, you talked about the potential conflict between the three needs in the Equality Act 2010 and the operational duties. The third need—fostering good relations—often gets overlooked. It is something that we are missing, both in the broader conversation about the public sector equality duty and in the proposed reforms. Do you think that public bodies understand what it means to foster good relations? How can we ensure that that need is taken as seriously as it should be?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

The frustration that you and Rohini Sharma Joshi feel comes out quite strongly in what you said.

Vic Valentine, given that the PSED is not delivering, what are the barriers and the failures?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

I ask the same question of Clare Gallagher.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Okay. Thanks. Lindsey Millen, I ask you the same question on fostering good relations.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks very much, Clare.

Jatin, you said that

“the point of having the public sector equality duty was to change people’s lives, but that has been missing”.

That is a very stark statement that we, in this committee, should take seriously. Is your view similar to Clare’s—that the reason for that is the gap between process and outcome—or is something else going on, as well?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you, Rohini. Vic, will you comment on fostering good relations? Where do you see the barriers and the opportunities? Is any work happening in that area?