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I have a small supplementary question. You mentioned something about considering a suite of legislation or support for neurodiverse people. Would it be relevant to the scope of that work to include discussion on our approach to conversion therapy? We have been talking about that in the committee in relation to LGBTQ+ rights, but there is an important issue around neurodiverse people who are challenged and people who try to “fix” them. Do you see that as a legitimate area to consider within the scope of that work?

I thank the witnesses for coming along this morning; like Pam Duncan-Glancy and Fulton MacGregor, I also signed the end conversion therapy petition during the election campaign.

I will pick up on a couple of things that you have said around cultural sensitivities and the definition of conversion therapy being all-encompassing, including behaviour or activity that is “with or without” consent or without consent and the notion of partnership working. If we look at those issues with particular reference to religious and faith groups and the tensions between religious and faith beliefs, understandings and practices, in particular, that “with or without” consent part could be quite tricky and might cause concern for some faith leaders. Could you say a little more about that? Do we need to consider any exceptions, specifically around the expression of religious freedoms?

Thank you.

In that written information, could you clearly address the 10 risks that were identified in the equality and fairer Scotland budget statement? That would help us to be clear about what work is happening against each of those identified risks. Similarly, it would be useful to have information on progress against each of the recommendations of the equality budget advisory group.

I have a couple of questions on how we embed equalities and human rights into our budget process in a meaningful way. What steps is the Scottish Government taking to build the capacity of all Scottish Government members and officials to ensure that budget spend advances our equalities and human rights agenda? Further, how do we ensure that our budget processes are as transparent as possible, especially around those issues? How do we inform those who are doing the budget setting while being transparent in the interests of those who might want to be involved in that process?

Thank you for that. Who, then, has the responsibility for ensuring that victims of coercion or the kind of non-consensual approach in a faith-based setting, which Megan Snedden talked about, know that what is happening is wrong? I suppose that it comes back to education and collective responsibility in society. Does anyone have something else to say about that? If people do not know that what is happening to them is wrong, how can they get out of that situation and get support?

I thank the panel members for all their contributions this morning; we have covered a wide range of issues.

Following on from Michelle Thomson’s questioning, I want to pick up on a couple of issues. We have talked about the fact that a labour shortage is not the same as a skills shortage, and about some of the analysis around that, which relates to house prices, rural-urban splits and so on. There has also been discussion of T-shaped employees versus I-shaped employees and how we support and generate the right approach in that respect. Quite a few of you have spoken about the need to adopt a new mindset, which goes for employers as well as employees.

Many of the responses have focused on what we need to do to get the right skills, the right training and development, and the right infrastructure in place. We have not heard so much about the cultural aspect; employers and employees are people, and I wonder what research has been done—or analysis you have—that would allow us to better understand how we take people with us on the journey. We cannot just say, “You need to adopt a new mindset here.” We need to do work on how we take them with us.

If you have any analysis in that space, from that information, what do the Scottish Parliament and Government need to prioritise in how we look at that, particularly around the clear economic—and, I would argue, moral—drivers for having a diverse workforce that acknowledges the breadth of experience and skills that we can bring to our economy? That question goes first to Chris Brodie and I would also be interested to hear from Mairi Spowage.

I will change tack a little bit. I know that, earlier this year, the Scottish Government published its response to the consultation on challenging men’s demand for prostitution. There was no specific approach or proposal set out by the Government in that consultation. Can you give a sense of what the approach might be, and of what the timescale might be over the next five years?

I want to come back on two points. In the counselling and therapeutic space, in psychiatry and psychotherapy, there are already guidelines around not doing conversion therapy. What routes would a ban open up to a survivor of such behaviour that they do not already have available to them?

My other question is on the criminalisation of the non-medical and non-religious forms of conversion therapy that may take place behind closed doors in a family home. How would you see that playing out?

Thank you for that. I hear what you say about that issue dividing opinion and I am pleased to hear what you said about making Scotland a hostile place for sex trafficking; that is well said and I doubt that any people around this table will disagree with it.

I am interested in the division and conflict around what harm reduction means, and I have a separate question around the need to hear the voices of sex workers and people who are not in prostitution for reasons relating to a mechanism of abuse, or for whom it is not their only means of financial support or security. I am interested in understanding how the work over the next two, three or four years to gather support and information for the Scottish Government’s approach will recognise those very vocal but dissenting voices from organisations such as Scot-Pep and all the people who support their approach to sex workers’ rights.