Skip to main content

Language: English / Gàidhlig

Loading…

Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Criathragan Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 April 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 1466 contributions

|

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

John, I ask you the same question. Given some of the significant challenges with the public sector completely missing equalities targets and outcomes, what are the challenges with the PSED as it stands? You spoke about a focus on prevention. The committee has heard about the inadequate support that has been provided for the range of services that groups such as disabled people should expect to receive.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Can you give specific examples? You say that you bring communities together. How? What do you mean by that? What does that look like for East Ayrshire?

10:30  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, and thank you for joining us.

I think that you were all present during the previous panel, when I suggested that one of the drivers for the work on the public sector equality duty is that it is a tool that is available to us in the absence of additional human rights legislation and in the absence of all the discussions that would happen around that, including conversations on duties and responsibilities. I am very pleased that the committee is doing this work, because I think that the duty has some key drivers that we can use to make things better for people. Indeed, you have all spoken about outcomes in different ways.

Perhaps I can start with Jillian Matthew. We have had the PSED for a long time now, but what, in your view, is the barrier to ensuring that we deliver on the outcomes that we all want? Why is it taking us so long to understand what needs to change and to deliver that change?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Your comment about who owns the relationships is interesting, because the question is: how do we foster good relationships? How do we act and treat each other with compassion, if we are not controlling the spaces? If there is more that you can provide on that after today, I will be interested to read it. Thank you for the offer.

Nicky, you talked earlier about the challenges that Police Scotland has faced and the recognition of institutional racism by two chief constables. How does Police Scotland foster good relations, given that charge, which has been accepted by the institution that is Police Scotland?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Creating the spaces for those conversations to happen is important, but it can be challenging to do that when you are dealing with two opposing groups who are potentially in conflict. Do you see public bodies as having an awareness of their duty to consider fostering good relations, or do you think that that is actually a kind of a sideline that is forgotten about and not really spoken about because there are no clear metrics and data around it? Should this committee or the Scottish Government work on that a bit more?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you; that is helpful.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

It is interesting that one of your examples is work with Gypsy Traveller communities. In the work that you have done with those communities, other service providers or other communities, did you get the sense that people understood that that work was happening under the banner of fostering good relations, or did they think that it was happening because it was the right thing to do?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is an interesting approach. In those initial discussions, did any surprising potential touch points—“conflicts” is not the right word—emerge, not necessarily between communities but between public agencies that might be interacting with and supporting communities? Will the questions that you ask in your questionnaire unpick some of that? For a range of reasons, certain communities might not want to approach certain public agencies for support or services. I see addressing that as being embedded and bound up in the fostering good relations element of PSED. Do you think that you will tease some of that out?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

To pick up on your last point, if we had national outcomes, would they help different agencies to work together better?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you—that is really helpful.