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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 1466 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Broadband Connectivity

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

That is fair enough—and that will be important as hybrid working continues after the pandemic.

I have a question about the use of the application of connectivity, whether it is broadband or mobile connectivity, which might link back to something that Fiona Hyslop was talking about. There are real economic opportunities emerging in relation to issues such as how we use 5G data to manage traffic flows, deal with accidents and better predict supply chain issues, and there are also links into health and food supplies. Where in the policy and strategy landscape is thinking happening around such issues?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, panel. Thank you for joining us this morning and for the evidence that you are providing today. I also thank the SHRC for the written evidence that it submitted prior to the meeting.

I have a couple of questions for the SHRC and Victor Madrigal-Borloz. Victor, in your opening remarks, you said that the requirements for a gender identification process include its being accessible, fast and widely available. You then said that there are other requirements that you would be prepared to elaborate on. Can you elaborate on requirements that you see as being necessary and important if we are to get the process right?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

I am aware that a couple of my colleagues want to drill down into some of the data questions, and you are covering some of that. In handing back over to the convener, I say that there are different processes here: data collection processes versus the process for obtaining a GRC. I am not sure that we necessarily need to conflate them in this way. I will leave it there for now.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thanks. That is helpful.

A moment ago, you talked about the importance of language, how it is used and the need for it to be clear and not dehumanising. I was struck by one of your earlier comments in response to one of Rachael Hamilton’s questions on data collection and people answering the sex question based on a process of self-identification or self-declaration. You likened it to the age question, and I think that you said that we do not expect people to

“make up whatever age they like.”

Are you saying that people make up whatever gender they like?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Peter Dunne, I will come to you.

You talked about the importance of the need to mix international good practice and the human rights standards with the lived experience of trans people and those who are going to be most affected by the legislation. In previous evidence sessions, we have heard about the potential for views about who will be most affected to come into conflict. In your comparative analyses, how have you drawn out any conflicts or competitive notions of impact to come to your view on reform?

12:30  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

I want to come back to a couple of things that have been said. I will come to Robin White first.

You have spoken about age and about self-identification and self-declaration. Should there be any gatekeeping, whether that is medical, such as through the gender recognition panel and the assessment of information about dysphoria and other evidence, or should we completely disentangle the process from gatekeeping? How do you see that element of the bill working?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

I will leave it there.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

I want to explore a bit further the issue of depathologising. I appreciate that the context of private versus state healthcare in Denmark is different, and that we have issues around waiting times that we have well explored. Did that depathologising come across as a really significant shift in the experiences of the trans people you interviewed?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

I will stick with first names, too.

I thank all three witnesses for coming to the meeting and for their opening statements. It has been helpful to hear those in relation to some of the other things that we have heard today and prior to today.

I will ask a couple of questions about the case for change and some of the requirements that we would be removing from the gender recognition process if we pass the bill as it is, which are for medical and psychological diagnosis and for the panel of experts to have an important assessment, or gatekeeping, role.

Sandra, you talked about the polarised concerns that we experience in the UK not being manifested elsewhere. Could you say a little more about how the case for reform that we hear, particularly in Scotland, has been different elsewhere? Where did the catalyst for reform come from elsewhere, if it was not borne out of the same kind of debate that we might be having here in Scotland?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Maggie Chapman

Sorry, can I just come in on that point? You say that the shift to self-ID will remove any gatekeeping. What gatekeeping do you envisage that there should be? Is the only legitimate gatekeeping the current gender recognition panel that assesses the dysphoria diagnosis?