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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 1466 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, minister. Thank you for what you have said so far and for being here.

As you said, we have ambitious targets to meet in Scotland, but that is part of a bigger picture—the idea of what we see termed as “Keeping 1.5°C alive”. That rapid shift and pace of transition must happen with, as you mentioned, engagement and conversations with workers about job creation and the broader shifts in energy and the economy.

We will get into the details of specific community issues when we talk about the just transition fund for the north-east and Moray a bit later. However, in relation to the economy more generally, how can we ensure that we future proof our work and do not lock in disadvantage and inequality? You mentioned in your opening remarks that former mining communities are still suffering from the previous energy transition that we went through. How can we use this transition to ensure that we improve equality and make things fairer now for people who have not reaped the benefits of the oil economy that we have had for the past 50 years?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

That links to Fiona Hyslop’s question about working between and across departments and portfolios. There has been quite a lot of talk about using a mission-based approach or a challenge-based approach that does not result in silos in different departments. What challenges exist in that regard in the way in which the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament work? What do we need to change in the next decade if we are to not only meet the targets and do all the things that we want to do but ensure that we do cross-cutting work that means that we do not fail on the equalities measures, never mind the energy measures?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

I appreciate that.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

I suppose that that figure is even before talk about the costs of adaptation. I know that other people want to talk about finance, so I will leave it there for now.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 6 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

The Scottish Human Rights Commission is not the only commission that is talking about sharing services such as payroll and back-office functions.

Jim Farish, in your newish role, how do you find the balance between the strategic work that you and your fellow commissioners are asked to do and the operational side, which Ian Duddy heads up? Notwithstanding the requests for additional staff that Ian has outlined, have we got the balance right between strategy and operations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 6 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. I will ask one more question, if I may. There have been discussions about having commissioners for other bits of rights. How do you view the SHRC’s role as an overarching body? How do you see that role developing?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 6 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

I will leave it there.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 6 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

That is helpful. Ian Duddy, you talked about the shift from 12.5 to 14.5 members of staff, which you described as “steady state”. Given what is coming at us all with the human rights bill, incorporation and the distinct legal and constitutional challenges around that, never mind just the human rights bit, when you say “steady state”, how much additional resource do you anticipate needing? I know that you will have started some of those conversations with staff who support you in the Parliament, but where are those conversations going?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 6 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thank you very much for that clarity.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 6 December 2022

Maggie Chapman

Thanks for your comments, Ian. In your initial response to Pam Gosal’s question, you said that you stand by the evidence that you gave in June. During the same meeting, we also heard from the UN independent expert on protection against violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity, Victor Madrigal-Borloz. In his evidence, he was quite clear that, in the work that he has undertaken, the so-called competition of rights has come up before. He said that he has found no evidence to support that there is

“any systemic identifiable pattern of risk in ... the situation that is created by ... self-identification.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 21 June 2022, c27-28]

Does the SHRC agree with that view of the situation, and, from your understanding of other countries where legal recognition by self-identification works, have you heard any evidence to suggest that there can be conflict, as the letter by Reem Alsalem suggested?