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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 April 2025
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Displaying 1466 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Would you like guidance to be addressed in the discussions that are happening about the PSED reform?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

I am going to shift focus a bit. A lot of our conversation has been around discrimination and the needs to eliminate discrimination and to advance equalities. Jatin Haria, right at the start, you talked about the potential conflict between the three needs in the Equality Act 2010 and the operational duties. The third need—fostering good relations—often gets overlooked. It is something that we are missing, both in the broader conversation about the public sector equality duty and in the proposed reforms. Do you think that public bodies understand what it means to foster good relations? How can we ensure that that need is taken as seriously as it should be?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

The frustration that you and Rohini Sharma Joshi feel comes out quite strongly in what you said.

Vic Valentine, given that the PSED is not delivering, what are the barriers and the failures?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

I ask the same question of Clare Gallagher.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Okay. Thanks. Lindsey Millen, I ask you the same question on fostering good relations.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thanks very much, Clare.

Jatin, you said that

“the point of having the public sector equality duty was to change people’s lives, but that has been missing”.

That is a very stark statement that we, in this committee, should take seriously. Is your view similar to Clare’s—that the reason for that is the gap between process and outcome—or is something else going on, as well?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Thank you, Rohini. Vic, will you comment on fostering good relations? Where do you see the barriers and the opportunities? Is any work happening in that area?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

That is pretty stark and, arguably, pretty damning, given how long the duties have been in place.

On the second and third needs, I take the point about “advancing equality” being lesser, but do both “advancing equality” and “fostering good relations” need to become much more prominent in the Scottish Government’s work on current and future reviews and the public sector equality duty, given the level of hate crime, the rise of the far right and the undermining of equality and diversity work that is happening across the board and not just in Scotland? Does there need to be more focus on that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Good morning to the witnesses. Thank you for joining us this morning and for your comments so far.

You have all identified a gap between process and outcomes, and a failure to understand the connections. Given that one of the reasons for this inquiry is the lack of other levers to consider changing outcomes and making human rights and equalities real for people, where are the failures in that implementation gap? We have talked a bit about understanding, but we also heard questions about lack of accountability and leadership. Why does the public sector equality duty as we have it now not work? Rohini Sharma Joshi, I will start with you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Maggie Chapman

Rohini, what are your views on Age Scotland’s understanding of, or work with, the third need of fostering good relations?