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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 November 2024
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Displaying 1319 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Douglas Lumsden

I imagine that the piece of work that is coming the NHS’s way will not be insignificant.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Douglas Lumsden

I have a question for Mark Taylor. Even at this early stage, do you feel that all the risks have been accurately identified and quantified? I am thinking of things such as VAT, over which we still have large question marks. Do you feel that enough work has been done on that, so that we can understand its impact?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Douglas Lumsden

So there is not yet one place where all the risks have been written down so that we can all see them.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Douglas Lumsden

To pick up on that point, might health boards, too, have to change radically as the national care service comes into being? Would there be a reduction in the number of boards?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Douglas Lumsden

I know that the bill process is at an early stage but, given that the NHS would be a key partner in delivering a national care service, surely there have been some discussions to enable the Government to get to the point that it is at now. Has that not been the case?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Douglas Lumsden

From the written submissions and what you have said, there seem to be a number of risks. We have heard about transition costs, the number of boards and a doubling of the running costs, as well as uncertainty on VAT, pensions, staff numbers, scope, impact on the third sector, IT systems, records and training. We have already covered a huge number of unknowns. How do we keep track of them and know what the costs will be to mitigate some of those risks? Can you think of any other unknowns that should be added to my list?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

I will come back to VAT, which is a big risk. In the worst-case scenario, how much are we talking about?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

That leads me to my next point. There will be a choice for local authorities, because the statutory duty will move away from them on to the Scottish Government. As Mr Mason said, provision often costs more than local authorities actually take in, and local authorities could, if they wish, say, “Well, we don’t want to provide this service any more—over to you, national care service; you can buy this building if you want.” Would that be right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

I have one other slight question. Some local authorities have arm’s-length external organisations providing care. I guess that, in future, it would have to be decided whether an ALEO would remain part of the local authority or whether it would potentially move across to the national care service, or continue to provide care as a provider. Is that right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Douglas Lumsden

As a final final point—sorry, convener—I think that you mentioned earlier that boards might differ in how they provide service. I am not sure whether that is what you said.