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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1548 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

You are right. There was a group of local authorities that broke away from COSLA, but it was my understanding that the Scottish Government only consulted with COSLA and did not consult with the other local authorities that were not part of COSLA.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I will just sum up briefly. I feel that local authorities will be impacted by everything that is in the bill, so it is only right that they have a proper seat at the table. I feel that they must be consulted. I do not think that the wording is strong enough. I imagine that, if I changed the word “COSLA” to “local authorities”, that would also have been knocked back by the minister. I am happy to press amendment 106.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Does the member share my frustration? As he mentioned, recycling has flatlined. We are making suggestions about how we improve recycling and, last week, suggestions were made about targets for recycling, but the Government is rejecting them all. Does he feel, as I do, that we will be in the exact same place in the next 10 years?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I thank Mr Doris for taking an intervention. I just want to be clear in my mind. I know that some local authorities pick up garden waste, for example, and some do not. Am I correct in saying that the amendments do not compel the ones that do not pick it up to start picking it up?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Will the member take an intervention?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I was just thinking about the use of the word “may”. Do you not think that it would have been better to compel local authorities to do something about garden waste and bulk uplifts?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I go back to the point that Monica Lennon made. Given that something was put in place for retail workers, why is our looking at waste operatives suddenly a constitutional matter?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I accept that. Mr Doris knows my position on framework bills. The reason why I am so much against their use is that we could end up approving legislation even though it still does not have the detail that we need in order to do our jobs properly. That sums up the problem that we have.

One issue is what will be covered by a charge. VAT is another issue. Graham Simpson mentioned unintended consequences. Section 9 might make ordering a cup of coffee less affordable.

We are serious about having a circular economy, but the Government could have tackled the issue differently. We discussed in committee the use of reusable coffee cups, with each vendor handing out and taking back the same cups. That is something that would give us a real circular economy, but no proposal on that has come forward. Just having a tax on things is probably not the right way of doing it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

So it is not the person who supplies the coffee shop with the cups. The point of the amendment is to clarify how far down the chain this goes.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I thank Monica Lennon for taking the intervention, because I have a few questions about her amendments. On amendment 170, I am thinking about local authorities because, let us face it, they are all struggling and every pound is a prisoner for them just now. My first question is about the scheme in North Ayrshire. Is there any more data on the costs and results that could be shared with us ahead of stage 3? I presume that the Government must have information on the workings already, or will that be in the report that you mentioned from the James Hutton Institute?

You said that the scheme is cost neutral because 62,250kg of disposable nappies are no longer going to landfill, but landfill can no longer be used for most waste anyway, so I am not sure whether that is still relevant or whether the position has changed since the figures were put together.

On amendment 157, on the healthcare side, has there been any more feedback from the Government? I do not want to sound negative, but I can see potential problems. New parents might pick up reusable nappies—I am going to call them that rather than diapers—but what do they do with them if washing facilities are not in place? Do they have to take soiled nappies home? They may then reuse them, but I can see issues there. I would like more work to be done with the Scottish Government to see whether there is potential there, because the last thing that we want to do just now is to put more costs on local authorities and health boards at a time when they are struggling for cash.