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Minister, I thought that you said that the patronage had gone down. That is why I am slightly confused.

How does that work?

Some operators will increase their fares and others will not, yet the reimbursement rate is the same for everyone, so I am confused by that comment.

My main concern is the unintended consequences. A lot of my constituents tell me that bus fares are increasing considerably. Is that happening because operators are trying to maintain the level of funding that they are getting, so if the reimbursement rate is going down, they need to have a different tool to ensure that the funding stays the same? As you said, they are to be left no better or worse off.

Can I just finish this point?

Obviously, the reimbursement rate is going down, so a way for operators to maintain the money that they are getting from the capped funding is to increase the fares. Will that not disincentivise people who are paying to use public transport, because their fares are increasing by so much?

You are looking for more meat on the bones with regard to how each organisation is going to feed in and contribute to meeting those targets.

Minister, when I talk to bus companies, one of their big concerns is the erosion of the reimbursement rate for older and disabled persons. Over the past 14 years, it has gone from 73.6 per cent down to 55 per cent. Are there any unintended consequences of that rate being cut?

Is there not a fear, though, when you say that bus operators have to be no better or worse off, that the way they maintain their funding when the rate is cut is to increase the prices, which affects everyone else?

We are also trying to attract more people on to public transport—