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That is good.

No, it is not. I will pursue that point. The Good Shepherd Centre gave evidence to the Parliament that Scotland has been turning to England “to ensure sustainability”. That is based on the fact that people pay above the rates that are referenced in the Scotland Excel frameworks that Mr McNamara has just mentioned. However, the minister’s stated intention is to reduce the number of people who are paying above that rate. Therefore, how will the sector maintain the sustainability if that revenue is removed, minister?

So, there is no intention at the moment to revisit the Scotland Excel framework in terms of the costs that are paid.

Lucy Hughes and Craig McLaren are looking to come in, although maybe on a slightly different point. Rachel, do you want to respond and then I will come to them?

I thank the committee for my appointment. I look forward to working with you all. As deputy convener, I will chair the rest of the meeting in the convener’s absence.

Craig McLaren, we are talking about public sector reform programmes. Those are also to do with spatial planning because where services might be provided or not provided is part of the question. Are you involved in those discussions about public sector reform across the different areas?

I think that Lucy Hughes is keen to come in.

Of course.

For our next agenda item, the committee will continue its inquiry into effective Scottish Government decision making. Today we will hear from Dr Judith Turbyne, chief executive of Children in Scotland; Lucy Hughes, policy and parliamentary manager at Engender; Craig McLaren, director of Scotland, Ireland and English regions at the Royal Town Planning Institute Scotland; and Rachel Le Noan, policy and public affairs officer at the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations. I welcome you all to the committee.

I intend to allow up to 90 minutes for the session. If witnesses would like to be brought into the discussion at any point, please indicate that to the clerks and I can then call you. We already have your written submissions—thank you for those.

We will move straight to questions. I ask Michelle Thomson to begin.

I will bring in Lucy Hughes to speak about this issue.