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In their recent book on the role of consultancy firms in government, Mariana Mazzucato and Rosie Collington say:

“The more governments and businesses outsource, the less they know how to do.”

Does that ring true to you?

Sophie, do you have thoughts on this area?

On your point about putting the last-bed policy in place for 2023-24, is the funding for the policy continuing or has it expired?

In the absence of any remedy, do you have any idea what will happen to those young people? You are going to lobby for a remedy, and I understand that and agree with you that England should change what it is doing, but if that remedy is not forthcoming, what happens to those young people?

I recognise the difference between a young offenders institute and secure care and the difference in cost, but my question is about whether you are still working with that stable cost of £6,500 for a secure care placement after the legislation is passed. Is that correct? You do not see the allowance increasing. Tom McNamara, can you provide that clarity?

I—

The last-bed pilot scheme is about ensuring that there is emergency surge capacity. That is to ensure that, if there is a dispensation and a young person is sent to a secure care unit, there will be a space—that the place will not be full. However, the evidence that the Parliament has had relates to up to 50 per cent of the current cohort—it is not about one bed or the fact that the place is full; I am talking about financial sustainability, as I think that we all are, minister—but there is nothing in the financial memorandum to recognise the removal of that revenue from your policy intent. Is that correct?

Therefore, with regard to that reduction over time, that monitoring could include modelling?

Okay. That provides some assurance, minister.

That is partly based on the evidence that we have heard that the sector relies on cross-border placement money to keep the lights on.