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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 November 2024
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Displaying 1196 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Michael Marra

I start by declaring an interest: two immediate family members work in children and family services at Dundee City Council.

That brings me to Mr Emmott. You talked about the expansion of early years provision and the number of people involved. At the same time, the number of additional support needs teachers in Dundee has almost halved since 2010, dropping from 165 to 93. That is in the context of a drop in the number of teaching staff across the board in Dundee, despite the number of pupils having remained roughly steady. That does not feel strategic as a way of delivering better outcomes for kids from the most disadvantaged backgrounds.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Michael Marra

Absolutely. The purpose of my comment is not necessarily to criticise you on that issue. We could have that discussion elsewhere. My concern is about public sector reform and the process of driving that. You have described this as an outcome that is to be delivered by diktat of the Scottish Government. It wants there to be a focus on this area. It also wants there to be a focus on early years, as you said earlier. Dramatically cutting provision for the next stage for the most vulnerable children at the same time, with no sign of that recovering, does not feel like a strategic approach. As a council, you have to respond to that instruction, but it does not feel like a strategic approach to public sector reform. That is a comment from me, but perhaps you could reflect on the process.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Michael Marra

The MTFS told us that there is a £1 billion funding gap in the coming year, which will rise, within three years, to £1.9 billion across Scotland, between the projected policy prospectus of the Government and what is to be delivered. Malcolm Burr, did the financial strategy simply tell you the size of your black hole?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Michael Marra

You put forward the figure of 1 per cent of costs being for the executive function, and colleagues also mentioned it. I find that some of the discussion about shared services misses the point in some respects: we are talking about a small number at the top, rather than the bulk of the costs. Has there been discussion across the Tayside region about a shared leadership team with one chief executive and one director of finance, for example?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Michael Marra

There was also mention in the evidence of the medium-term financial strategy that was published by the Government. The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that that told us that a significant funding gap was looming but gave little sense of how to address it. The Fraser of Allander Institute said the same, as did the Scottish Parliament information centre. As organisations, what have you learned from the medium-term financial strategy about the challenges and the opportunities that are in front of you? Did it illuminate? Did it help?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 27 June 2023

Michael Marra

You mentioned changes in the number of children going into placements. Removing young people from their families and putting them into placements is a very expensive thing to do. If fewer children are put into placements, will there be an increase in support for social workers to work with children who are not in placements? When you are balancing that budget and, hopefully, reducing the cost on one side, are you seeing a linked increase in the resource for social workers to work with children who are kept in-house? That must be a live discussion at the moment.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Michael Marra

Okay—that is fine.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Michael Marra

In his campaign to become First Minister, the First Minister made a pledge on childcare. Is it right to say that that can be delivered only if there are further cuts? That is what headroom is.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Michael Marra

That is my point—the Scottish Government is waiting for something to come along. The Institute of Fiscal Studies, the Scottish Parliament information centre and the Fraser of Allander Institute have commented on the size of the gap and the fact that there seems to be no indication of a strategy on it. They say that the Government’s approach to how the gap might be closed does not feel very strategic. You are also highlighting that there might be further consequentials that will allow us to do some of the things that we have already committed to doing. Does that not—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Michael Marra

That is not much more specific.