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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1472 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

Would it not have been better if you had presented the anticipated cost as a range of numbers? You have given an anticipated figure, but would it not have been better if you had said that the figure could vary, given the significantly higher totals that are available in other jurisdictions—for example, in Australia, which has a more comparable system? Would it not have been better to have laid out your figures in such a way as to say, “The cost could be as low as this, but it could be as high as that number over there”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

It is quite a restricted range, compared with what the evidence says.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

But the bill will have an impact in that respect, given the way that the debate has been led.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

It is not clear whether people will have access to legal aid to meet the costs, but according to some estimates, it could cost people tens of thousands of pounds to access a judgment. When it comes to the trade-off between meeting those costs or coming to Scotland and getting the treatment as it is proposed under your bill, surely there will be a cross-border flow of people in that respect.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

You understand my point, however, that people are prepared to travel for it to happen—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

Does the Australian system not represent a better comparator for Scotland than the system in the US?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

I think that we would all be supportive of that, and I entirely agree that the bill has shone a useful light on palliative care. I also understand that the financial memorandum is about direct consequences of the bill. However, with regard to the impact on the public purse, if we are all saying that palliative care services have to improve—we know that hospice care, in particular, is in a pretty dire and financially precarious situation in various parts of the country—investment would have to be made. That is not represented in the financial memorandum, but there is an impact on the public purse.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

You mentioned earlier that palliative care practices that are in place will be disrupted by the introduction of assisted dying. Could those practices become defined as assisted dying under the terms of your bill and, therefore, become more problematic and, necessarily, more expensive? You talked about people’s pain being traded off against an acceleration towards death, which is, I think, an acknowledged practice in palliative care. Is there a risk that the introduction of the system as you have defined it will make such practices more difficult and, as a result, more expensive?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

My last question is about cross-border interaction with the UK on this matter. Under the scope of your bill, as drafted, the access criteria are far wider than those in the bill that recently passed its first reading in the UK Parliament. Your bill also makes it explicit that the treatment would be provided in the NHS, whereas there is no such explicit commitment in the UK bill, at the moment. People in the UK will also face potentially very high legal costs in order to access the provisions in the bill if it is passed by the UK Parliament.

Is there not a significant risk that, in the event of both bills being passed, a significant number of people will come to Scotland to access that form of care on the NHS in Scotland? Therefore, the numbers will be much higher, and the costs of accommodating people and making the care available will be significantly higher, too.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 17 December 2024

Michael Marra

People are travelling to Switzerland, at the moment.