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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 December 2025
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Displaying 1960 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

I—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

The last-bed pilot scheme is about ensuring that there is emergency surge capacity. That is to ensure that, if there is a dispensation and a young person is sent to a secure care unit, there will be a space—that the place will not be full. However, the evidence that the Parliament has had relates to up to 50 per cent of the current cohort—it is not about one bed or the fact that the place is full; I am talking about financial sustainability, as I think that we all are, minister—but there is nothing in the financial memorandum to recognise the removal of that revenue from your policy intent. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

Therefore, with regard to that reduction over time, that monitoring could include modelling?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

Okay. That provides some assurance, minister.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

That is partly based on the evidence that we have heard that the sector relies on cross-border placement money to keep the lights on.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

Up to 50 per cent of placements are cross border.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Michael Marra

There are four centres, and I have evidence from two of them stating that they are reliant on that money. It is worth emphasising, minister, that your stated policy intent of reducing the number of or eliminating those people is not a marginal issue. There are concerns from across the committee for those young people—young people in England as well as those in Scotland—and their welfare. I understand your legal responsibility in that regard, but, on a human level, we all have great concern for the outcomes of those young people.

More generally, we are concerned about the fact that we have a sector that is entirely dependent on that money, yet I am not hearing a lot of evidence from you or your officials that that is being dealt with in the long run. There is talk about dealing with it in 2030. Let us hope that the meeting with agencies in June comes up with some answers, and that, when we see the second version of the financial memorandum, it is in a state that we can agree with.

Thank you for your evidence today. That brings to a close the public part of the meeting. We will take the rest of the agenda items in private.

12:02 Meeting continued in private until 12:17.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michael Marra

Lucy Hughes said that we have strategies that are “world leading” and Craig McLaren said that we have “good policy” but surely that is not the case if how those things will be delivered is not thought through. Are they not simply completely unrealistic in that regard? In what way are they “world leading” if they cannot be delivered?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michael Marra

The previous First Minister set out a national mission to combat drug deaths in Scotland. How have your organisations been involved in the decisions to implement that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Michael Marra

I raise that example because it feels a little emblematic of something that we have discussed already in that there was a need for the country to pursue a high-level, very challenging policy direction on the back of quite catastrophic data, which, in that case, showed that we had one of the worst drug deaths records in the developed world. I am trying to understand how all the organisations orientate towards dealing with something like that. That example might be illustrative to me, in the first instance, so I understand that the question might feel a little bit left field in the conversation.

How would your organisations be involved in the work of public service reform in areas like that? I will cite some other examples, such as the Promise, which requires that high-level statement, very detailed public service reform and the involvement of organisations. Another example is what the previous First Minister called the “sacred duty” of closing the attainment gap. Those are big public sector reforms. Are you involved in those decisions? If so, how does that work?