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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 1472 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Michael Marra

I want to stick with the contingency, for the moment. Is that something that you, as Minister for Public Finance, felt had to be created? Have you, as a result of looking over the conduct of previous budgets, decided to create that space in the budget? You have given us some of the rationale behind it, but is it an approach that you have had to push through? Is it a new characteristic of the Government’s handling of budgets?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Michael Marra

My questions also start from the premise that you claimed to have set a balanced budget at the start of last year but you did not.

ScotWind has played the role of a contingency fund for the Government over the past couple of years, according to Gillian Martin and others. We are now told that the money is going to be spent in year. When can we expect those allocations to be made to projects? Over the past year, there has been an underspend against the net zero budget of about £40 million. When will we see the pipeline of projects in the north-east and across the country that will see that money delivering against net zero targets and projects?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Michael Marra

Can we expect that to happen again next year?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 March 2025

Michael Marra

So, it makes sense in principle, but how do you see it operating? Would you meet the costs of up-front demand throughout the year then try to replenish the fund through adjustments throughout the year, so that, by the end of the following financial year, you would have had your £350 million? Is that the mechanism that you anticipate?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Michael Marra

That is good to hear.

I will close on public sector reform. We have heard about the money that is to be saved and about Minister McKee’s work in that area and the summit that he held this week. You have already set out some useful figures showing projected additional savings of £380 million in the years to come, which is good to hear. Ivan McKee said that the framework for some of that will be delivered near the start of the 2025-26 financial year.

What is the difference between what we are seeing now and the resource spending review that the Government stopped? What do you think is the difference between those two programmes? One was published three years ago. You previously told us, and have said again today, that that was a bit of a blunt tool, so what do you think is the difference between the programme that was put in front of Parliament three years ago and the process that is now being undertaken?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Michael Marra

The committee has been quite clear about our desire to see a directed plan that follows a strategy. The committee is unanimous on that, as is shown in what we have published.

The resource spending review asked for

“investment in systems and processes, with targeted workforce growth in priority areas”,

and said that

“We do not propose a uniform approach due to varying trends in demand for different services.”

The resource spending review acknowledged that there was no global figure for reduction, but that there were specific plans for different areas, which is the same as what is being described now. So, my core question is this: have we just wasted the three years between the publication of that document and where we are now?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Michael Marra

You are the director of public spending for the Scottish Government, Mr McCallum, so you will have a direct insight into this. Is bringing the policy solution and then asking the civil service to cost it up and do it a typical way of developing a policy? Is a more typical way not to go to the civil service and have a discussion about the minister’s intent and what they are seeking to achieve, and for the civil service to then come back with options and say, “These are what we think are the best ways to do it, minister,” so that you can make a decision on that, because you are the Government?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Michael Marra

Yes, absolutely. One of my concerns is pace and how long it is taking. Children are living in poverty right now, and we want that action to take place as soon as possible. In your response to our report, you said that you considered different options around pace, but you are not setting out any other options to me. You have said one thing here, which is the evidence that you have just given. Were the civil servants involved in the discussions?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Michael Marra

Okay. I will move on.

We have covered some national insurance issues. There are shared concerns about the impact on the public sector and the private sector. Across the board, it is a real challenge. What would your alternative be for raising the £5.2 billion of extra funding that has come into the budget for Scotland? How should that money have been raised?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Michael Marra

Much of what you have just said is about further expenditure. My question was about how that money would be raised. The First Minister said that

“the UK Government should have increased income tax”—[Official Report, 14 November 2024; c 13.]

to the level that we have in Scotland. The Fraser of Allander Institute published its analysis of that on 17 January and said that, if what the First Minister had suggested had been done, Scotland’s block grant would have lost £636 million.