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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 1472 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Michael Marra

Sorry, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 11 May 2022

Michael Marra

We have seen the qualitative analysis, but has any quantitative analysis been done on the scale of the gap?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Petitions

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

I am conscious that we have received some evidence—through the Ken Muir report on initial teacher education and discussions around it—that some forms were put in place almost a generation ago and have been replicated elsewhere, but we have not kept them up to date. I know that we have a full work programme for the next year at least, but, perhaps later in the session, after we have been through the legislative process, the subjects that are dealt with in the petition might be addressed in a future inquiry. That is not on the immediate horizon, but I am sure that it would come up if there was another discussion about initial teacher education. The committee might want to have that discussion at some point, and I certainly think that there would be grounds for doing so.

11:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

I want to pick up on the line of questioning that the convener started, about the change to the formula. Prior to the pandemic, we had what we were told was very limited progress against the Government’s targets on closing the attainment gap—those are Audit Scotland’s words.

We know that, following the pandemic, the gap in attainment between the richest and the poorest groups is the largest that it has ever been, and that it has grown significantly. We all recognise the impact of the pandemic on that gap, given its impact on our most deprived communities. Therefore, I find it a little bit surprising to hear our witness from Inverclyde Council talking about the council’s exit strategy. Surely the exit strategy should be to ensure that those kids have better attainment, rather than to ask ourselves how we stop spending money on it? I want to explore the rationale of that a little bit.

According to the committee’s papers, the reduction in Inverclyde is 47 per cent and the local authority area is consistently among the most deprived communities in Scotland. At the other end of the table is our witness from East Renfrewshire, which is consistently one of the most affluent local authority areas in Scotland, and its funding is up by 43 per cent.

We all recognise that what we might call hidden poverty exists in every community and that such figures mask numbers. By making this change, are we are moving away from using the rationale of severe multiple deprivation in communities and towards something more general? To me, that has been a founding principle of how we have dealt with poverty in Scotland over a generation—or, at the very least, how we have talked about poverty, as dealing with it is a different matter. Has that rationale changed? I ask Ruth Binks to start.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

I am not sure that that answers my question about young people now—those who have left school.

I have one more specific question before I turn to Mark Ratter. Will you use PEF money to make up for cuts to SAC funding?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

My question is at a slight tangent to the points about headship, but it is relevant to how the attainment challenge work is governed and run. We have talked about numbers, but data that was recently published in Tes magazine showed a significant decline in the number of deputes and others who actually want to become headteachers. You have talked about the work that is done with headteachers. Why are people less attracted to that job than they were previously?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

[Inaudible.]—the cuts from SAC?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

I found that really useful.

I have a question for Mr Lyons. For a long time, Glasgow was one of the most deprived communities in Scotland. Does the shift away from an analysis of multiple deprivation and extreme poverty to something that is more general across the country worry the local authority and you personally?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Petitions

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

This subject comes up weekly in our committee meetings, and it came up again today in the evidence that we received regarding the attainment challenge. Additional support needs are an underlying issue in the performance of the education system across Scotland and pertain to some of the most vulnerable young people.

Given how often the issue comes up, it would be good if it were firmly on our work programme for the foreseeable future. Given the representations that I receive as a member, I think that it should come to the fore in our work programme, if we can find space for it. I recognise that our work programme is busy and that we would have to find space, but it is a recurring theme that comes up week after week.

All the evidence that we receive shows that it is a challenge for local authorities and families. I am keen, therefore, that we try to find space for it. I recognise that that might not happen in the coming weeks, but let us take suggestions on how we deal with it. I am very keen for us to do something about it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Petitions

Meeting date: 4 May 2022

Michael Marra

I am content with that, convener. It sounds like a reasonable approach. The committee is pretty clear.