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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 April 2025
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Displaying 1472 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

In your letter to the committee, you are clear that

“funding models based on the acceptance of cross-border children cannot be sustained, and that Scotland must do all it can to prevent the monetisation of the care of our children.”

You have confirmed that. That is a question for both the UK Government, in terms of its actions to provide appropriate care in England, and the Scottish Government in ensuring the security and viability of facilities in Scotland, whether that is based on Scottish children alone, a reduced number of Scottish children or otherwise.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

I appreciate that confirmation.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

Do the other witnesses have specific comments about the pandemic?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

I understand what you are saying, but that is quite worrying for me. In essence, it has become a numbers game in terms of inputs: we know that X number of families and children are accessing the provision. However, as a Parliament, how are we supposed to evaluate whether the policy is increasing family resilience, closing the poverty-related attainment gap and supporting parents into work? As the Improvement Service, you might claim that that is not your job and maybe we need to find other people to do that job. Those are the policy intentions, and we need to be able to draw the causal link between the investment and the outcomes, rather than just the inputs.

In answer to Willie Rennie’s questions, you said that you do not really collect that information or assess the policy in that way and that you just look at the numbers. Is that correct?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

I will put roughly the same question to Matthew Sweeney. In COSLA’s view, is the policy about childcare or about education?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

It does—and I appreciate that.

It seems to me that there is some level of conflict between the different outcomes, with the sheer push to increase numbers of hours and the question whether we are providing education or childminding.

I also have a question about the impact of the pandemic, but I am not sure whether you want me to proceed with that now, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

I suppose that part of the issue is the need to think about the unintended consequences. If we are not setting clear parameters for what we hope to achieve—there is a broad range of things that we need to achieve—and we are not measuring our achievements, other than the input targets, that is a problem.

I was interested in the evidence, both written and verbal, that we received from the Scottish Childminding Association, which described the devastation of the childminder service: 1,400 businesses have gone and 8,000 places have gone. That is reflected in the experience of some of my constituents, who have told me that they recognise that that policy is in place but that they still cannot access the wraparound childcare that would allow them to go to work. The flexibility is not available through local authority services or other forms of childcare. Childminders would normally be part of that.

Graeme McAlister, do you see the collapse in the childminder sector as a direct consequence of the implementation of the policy? Is that what you were alluding to earlier?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

Yes. Proceed, and we will see how we go.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

No, I am afraid we cannot hear him.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michael Marra

I appreciate that. I also recognise that that might be challenging in and of itself. My question was not about whether it would be helpful—