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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 December 2025
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Displaying 1960 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

That is not what the cabinet secretary said; she told the Social Justice and Social Security Committee that the fund had

“run its course as a concept.”

It was as though she was saying that it was a failed concept, so there was not a choice. Is that your view? Did the parental employability support fund fail as a concept?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

Yesterday, the First Minister made a speech about the economy and the different choices that he would want to make. He said that if he could marshal £2 billion of capital funding annually—£20 billion over 10 years—he could deliver growth levels similar to those that China experienced in the 1990s. Professor Bell, do you think that that is realistic?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

The point about college infrastructure is a strong one. We could draw a contrast with the university sector, which has the ability to raise finance. Over the longer term, the Scottish Government has drawn the college sector much closer to it. The Government’s regulations and the way that the sector is run result in less flexibility in raising money.

To come back on the convener’s point, I do not think that there has to be a zero-sum game in that regard. There might be alternatives for the college sector to look at different forms of revenue raising and flexibility in the way that it works. We should not just be saying that the overall capital budget should be cut.

Essentially, it comes down to a class issue. Many people who go to colleges are from lower-working-class backgrounds and they have a much poorer experience, in terms of the physical environment, than people who go to university. Traditionally, those people are from more affluent backgrounds, and they are in brand-new buildings. Over the past decade, there has been huge investment in universities across the country, but colleges have not replicated that. There is a fundamental unfairness in that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

That was not the case in the 1990s, when China had double-digit growth rates, which is what the First Minister’s comparison was with. That is what would be required to raise the level of income in this country to the level that the First Minister has suggested.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

The convener highlighted the Government’s three missions. One relates to community. Sustaining public services—particularly in rural areas—requires affordable housing; there is no doubt about that. The mission relating to opportunity is meant to be about a fair, green transition, and we have already heard about fuel efficiency, energy efficiency in housing and growth in the economy. There is also the equality mission, which relates to poverty. The cuts will result in a comprehensive failure in all three missions, will they not?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

It just feels very short term to me. You have described previous long-term decisions about poverty and the health of the country, but it feels that much in this budget is about dealing with immediate threats instead of thinking about the long term.

I see you nodding, Professor Bell. Is that your assumption, too?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

That applies to both Governments.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

I know that, in the past, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation has been very keen on the parental employability support fund, but the social security secretary has said:

“I am afraid that the ... fund has just run its course as a concept.”—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 14 September 2023; c 14.]

Do you have any reflections on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

We have highlighted the cut to capital spending that is made in the budget—it is a cut of some £400 million. [Interruption.] The exact figure is £484 million—thank you for that, convener. The First Minister was talking about spending four times that amount. Is it realistic to say that, if we put that money back and added three times that amount, we could produce double-digit growth rates in Scotland? Is that realistic, Dr Sousa? If that would be possible, that is something that the committee might want to recommend. Could we find that money and achieve 10 per cent growth in Scotland?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Michael Marra

Chris Birt, do you have any thoughts on that?