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I just think that that situation would break the woman’s religion. I am sorry, convener, but I need to break this down, because it is important. If a trans person who was male before and is now trans examined that Muslim lady, but the lady did not know that, that would break her religion, because her religion states that only a female can examine her.

Thank you, Susan. It does break your religion—I can tell you that. It breaks your religion completely, because women would not be allowed to be seen by a doctor of the male sex at all—or by a trans person, although whether we could be seen by a trans doctor is not actually in any of our scriptures. Therefore, it is good that you have covered that. It is something that people have been asking about. Lucy, do you have any views on that?

I thank the panel members for their opening statements and their written evidence. I will touch on something that youse have all mentioned, which is single-sex spaces. Two weeks ago, we heard from the EHRC that individuals who acquire a GRC can access single-sex spaces for women and girls such as toilets, changing rooms, refuges, hospital wards and many more places. We also heard that the exclusion of such individuals with a GRC would be direct discrimination, which would have to be subject to justification.

Opponents of the bill have expressed concern—we have also heard concern from today’s witnesses—that self-declaration will open up the process to abuse from bad-faith actors. Malcolm Clark gave a good example when he talked about the 6 foot 2 person. What concerns do the rest of you have? Will you go into a bit more detail about what the provisions could mean? What are your concerns about people who access single-sex spaces?

I have a supplementary question on that, before I come back to Lucy Hunter Blackburn. I want to talk a bit about religion. You just mentioned carers. There is an issue that deeply concerns me as someone from an Indian religion. I will have to word this in the right way in order not to offend anybody here. For example, if my mother goes to the doctor, she will ask for a woman. She is old-fashioned—she does not know any different. She will ask for a woman doctor. If she did not ask, she might get a doctor who was trans and she would not know, which would break a lot of religions, especially the Muslim religion. Many Muslims and Indians have voiced questions to me about what the position would be with regard to single-sex spaces. Do we change our religions in that case? What are your feelings about that, Susan?

I am talking about any public toilets or any public space.

Good afternoon and thank you for your opening statements and the evidence that you have provided. I want to go back to the issue that Pam Duncan-Glancy has just asked about and probe it a little bit more.

Sandy Brindley, you have talked about single-sex spaces and service providers, and you have said that the bill will not impact the services that are provided or the single-sex spaces that we can go into. Can you help me to understand how the bill will work in that respect? If someone from the Muslim faith or the Indian faiths uses a single-sex space—or their daughter, mother, auntie or whoever goes into such a place—they will not know who is in the bathroom, say, when they go in to use that space. When they look around, see a person and think that they are female, that is it—it is okay. However, if they saw something different in there, how would you work around that to make it safe for them? How can you say to the Muslim community or most of the Asian community that they are safe to go into bathrooms, when the bill opens up the possibility for a lot more people to have a GRC?

I raised the issue of doctors with the earlier panel of witnesses. A couple of weeks ago, I asked some witnesses whether, if a doctor is trans, they have to tell an Asian—or any—female that they are, and I was told that they do not have to. The doctor would therefore be breaking the woman’s religion, because the woman would not see or know that—unknowingly, her religion would be broken. Can you help me understand how the practicalities of the bill would work in that respect?

Kate and Malcolm, is there anything that you want to add?

On that point, Sandy, how do restaurants and bars that have single-sex toilets police them and keep bad-faith actors from accessing them?

That is what I am asking you. If the bill was passed, would it not make things harder for providers with regard to the justification that people would have to give? I am not for or against this—I am just asking how that would work.

Your answer was fine. Is anybody able to answer the medical side of the question?

I want to go back to talk about how the bill would affect other countries. I am interested in hearing a bit more on the effect that reform of the GRA could have on participation in cross-border sporting competitions. Do you expect that moving to a system of self-declaration would conflict with the guidance set out in other countries, either in the UK or abroad? How would that work? We have talked a lot about Scotland but how do you see a reformed GRA working within the UK and other countries?