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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 February 2026
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Displaying 992 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you for that information. Convener, I—

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning. Thank you for the information that you have provided so far. Can you confirm that the commission has changed its position on recording sex based on self-identification—which has been the case since the publication of the chief statistician’s guidance in 2021—and that you agree that it is necessary to collect data on biological sex for equality monitoring?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I have a bit of a technical supplementary. Section 112(3) of the Equality Act 2010 states:

“B commits an offence if B knowingly or recklessly makes a statement mentioned in subsection (2)(a) which is false or misleading in a material respect.”

Does EHRC consider that public bodies and the Scottish Government are potentially at risk of legal action if they continue to follow the 2011 code of practice? Given that the code is now clearly advising action, does the commission believe that the Scottish Government is out of line with the law as clarified by the Supreme Court ruling? Having advised the Scottish Government that it must abide by the ruling, disregard the 2011 code of practice and not wait for the new code, do you consider that civil servants or ministers might be committing an offence under section 112(3) if they fail to act in accordance with the law as clarified?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

You would be guiding them, minister, as the Scottish Government.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Okay. I have a quick, sharp question. It has been almost a year since the Supreme Court ruling on the definition of the word “woman”, yet little progress has been made. Last month, I met with the chief constable, Jo Farrell, who said that Police Scotland did not wait for any guidance from the Scottish Government, but rather produced its own guidance, which is in accordance with the Supreme Court judgment and places an emphasis on biological sex as opposed to gender identity. Why have other public bodies not done the same?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

We can do that. That is fine. Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I have a couple of questions. Minister, in its submission to the committee, Murray Blackburn Mackenzie warned that

“Scottish public authorities are failing to meet their existing obligations in relation to protections for women and girls”

and that

“Failure to get the law right here carries a cost to the public purse”

because it

“is likely that more cases will be brought against Scottish public bodies.”

We have seen that in relation to the Sandie Peggie case, For Women Scotland’s lodging of legal action regarding school and prison guidance and the case of the Darlington nurses in England. Is MBM wrong to say that failure to properly implement the law could lead to more legal battles and, therefore, more taxpayer money being wasted?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Minister, it is good to hear that you accept the judgment and that you want to follow the law. However, it has recently emerged that SNP ministers have issued a declaration of incompatibility with regard to the Supreme Court’s judgment for the For Women Scotland case. Why is the Scottish Government seeking to undermine the law by putting the rights of dangerous criminals, who claim to be women, above the rights of some of the most vulnerable women?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

It is quite detailed, but it is important to understand if the Scottish Government is breaking the law.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you, convener. I have one question and then a supplementary. John, you said in response to my colleague Tess White that the EHRC sent an updated code of practice for services, public functions and associations to the UK Government following the Supreme Court judgment in the For Women Scotland case. Has there been any further update from the UK Government and has there been any engagement with the Scottish Government?