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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 January 2026
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Displaying 969 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

You would be guiding them, minister, as the Scottish Government.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Okay. I have a quick, sharp question. It has been almost a year since the Supreme Court ruling on the definition of the word “woman”, yet little progress has been made. Last month, I met with the chief constable, Jo Farrell, who said that Police Scotland did not wait for any guidance from the Scottish Government, but rather produced its own guidance, which is in accordance with the Supreme Court judgment and places an emphasis on biological sex as opposed to gender identity. Why have other public bodies not done the same?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

We can do that. That is fine. Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I have a couple of questions. Minister, in its submission to the committee, Murray Blackburn Mackenzie warned that

“Scottish public authorities are failing to meet their existing obligations in relation to protections for women and girls”

and that

“Failure to get the law right here carries a cost to the public purse”

because it

“is likely that more cases will be brought against Scottish public bodies.”

We have seen that in relation to the Sandie Peggie case, For Women Scotland’s lodging of legal action regarding school and prison guidance and the case of the Darlington nurses in England. Is MBM wrong to say that failure to properly implement the law could lead to more legal battles and, therefore, more taxpayer money being wasted?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Minister, it is good to hear that you accept the judgment and that you want to follow the law. However, it has recently emerged that SNP ministers have issued a declaration of incompatibility with regard to the Supreme Court’s judgment for the For Women Scotland case. Why is the Scottish Government seeking to undermine the law by putting the rights of dangerous criminals, who claim to be women, above the rights of some of the most vulnerable women?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

It is quite detailed, but it is important to understand if the Scottish Government is breaking the law.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you, convener. I have one question and then a supplementary. John, you said in response to my colleague Tess White that the EHRC sent an updated code of practice for services, public functions and associations to the UK Government following the Supreme Court judgment in the For Women Scotland case. Has there been any further update from the UK Government and has there been any engagement with the Scottish Government?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Yes, I am asking whether the commission has changed its position.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Do you have a timetable for that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Do you also understand that you cannot compare apples and pears and that there are some things that you cannot provide services for if you do not have the correct data? Basically, self-ID will screw up the data, especially when it comes to ethnic minorities—people like me. How will you know if females from an ethnic minority are being discriminated against in any way if data on biological sex is not captured? If you use self-ID, people will not have the exact data and would not know what is happening. You talked about the pay gap and other things. Do you not agree that self-ID would muddy the waters?

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