Seòmar agus comataidhean

I will start by saying a bit about the financial side. We are talking about a maximum cost of £23 million, which is only 0.5 per cent of the justice budget. In my opening statement, I mentioned that domestic abuse costs the public sector £7 billion over a three-year average period of abuse. We should also not forget, when we talk about domestic abuse in monetary terms, that we are talking about real people. Even one person going through domestic abuse is one too many, and we know that many have lost their lives. The money will be very well spent.

We talk about a figure of £23 million, but that is the highest amount. As we go through the bill, members will see that there are certain things for which we can look at mitigating costs as we go along. You mentioned the costs around part 1 of the bill, but part 1 is essential and important. I have spoken to many survivors—I have spoken to the organisations, too—and not one survivor said to me, “Pam, we don’t need this so-called notification” or register, as one might call it.

Notification is important because right now, to be honest, if I were not a politician, I certainly would not know anything about any disclosure scheme or anything in that respect. I know about that only because I am a politician and I am doing the work. I will describe a scenario that might play out. If I was a survivor and I was experiencing domestic abuse, I would not know to pick up the phone and to look for a disclosure scheme. I would be domestically abused, and the abuse would carry on. Coming from a BAME background, and having friends from other backgrounds, I know that the abuse continues on and on.

Having a lifeline, and knowing that somebody out there—the authorities, whether it is MAPPA or the police—has a little bit more information than I do, might save my life. The notification provisions in part 1 would require that the information has to be provided by the offender. That has never been done before, as far as I know, in any legislation to do with domestic abuse. The offender would have to go into a police station or to a member of police staff to give the information that their circumstances have changed. That could save somebody’s life. I believe, therefore, not only that the bill is a lifeline, but that the notification scheme would give victims a feeling that there is extra safeguarding, and that there is somebody else out there looking out for them so that they will be notified.

Last but not least, the bill could be a deterrent. Who wants to be on a so-called notification database or register? We know that it could act as a deterrent, in a similar way to the sex offenders register.

I have got all that information from my consultations. I went out to do personal, informal consultations: one in 2024, and then the main consultation; the committee has that information in front of them.

I did not take the decision to introduce the bill at all lightly, convener. I hope that I have answered your questions.

Yes, and I will come on to that.

What we are looking to do with the bill is to put that provision into legislation. It would not affect the equally safe strategy at all; if anything, it would work with that.

As I have said, I have spoken to many local authorities—a few years ago, I spoke to 31 out of the 32 local authorities in relation to local government issues, and I still speak to many of them. Not everybody is delivering the equally safe strategy, and there are gaps in what people are getting. In addition, it is not tailored to domestic abuse.

I am sure that members know that, when we provide education on such issues, we do not do so only to those whom I would describe as younger people, such as secondary school pupils. As is the case with equally safe, which I know that you have asked about, we want to help people to identify that domestic abuse is a crime and that it will not be tolerated in Scotland. We want to get across to people the message that if they engage in coercive behaviour or any sort of domestic abuse, they will be committing a serious crime, and to set out what will happen to them. We want to educate them about that.

On the other hand—on the softer side—we want to educate young people to recognise when abuse is happening to somebody else and to understand that it is wrong. That is why education is key. I have heard that time after time from many academics; I recently heard an academic in Dundee talk about how education is key.

You asked about who would deliver that education. My bill clearly states that it must not be delivered by the Scottish Government in this building. It must be delivered on the ground, while listening to the partners.

This part of the bill is very important. We want to put domestic abuse education into statute to make sure that it is available and that there is not a postcode lottery, whereby some people get it while others do not, depending on whether the Government has money. If we put it in legislation, it will be there.

It is important that we talk in particular to those organisations that deal with domestic abuse every day. That could include some education establishments—I have made the provision quite wide. There would have to be consultation, collaboration and partnership with other organisations. The Government could not simply create an education programme.

Absolutely.

I have not put that in the provision. I think that I was very clear in saying that there would have to be consultation.

Once again, it is important to note that I am simply introducing the bill today. People will have opportunities for input. If you feel that what I am proposing should be delivered in a different way or that the bill should be amended, I am quite open to using the expertise of the committee, and I am open to listening to what everybody says.

I will pass over to Agata Maslowska to deal with the cost issue.

In relation to rehabilitation, as many members already know, the Scottish Government was meant to roll out the Caledonian system to 32 local authorities. It is 2025, but that has been rolled out to only 21 local authorities, which is not pleasing. On top of that, different systems are being used out there, so not all local authorities will be using the Caledonian system.

However, on the resource side, the Government has pledged that it will roll out that system, so I do not think that there will be what I would call additional need, because that system is already being rolled out. My bill would put in statute a provision that would ensure that that happens.

My bill covers three areas. It deals with what happens when someone is convicted. Mandatory assessment is important in determining whether rehabilitation would be suitable for someone who has been convicted of domestic abuse, which is not the case at the moment. That requirement would apply when someone is convicted, when they are in prison and when they leave prison, when the Parole Board would have to obtain an assessment. At each point that rehabilitation could be provided, my bill would help people by making sure that we have that programme in place.

I have been in this Parliament for four years, and I know how much members talk about helping people rather than punishing them. I think that my bill goes the extra mile to help people by providing not only for education, but for the collection of data, rehabilitation and a notification system that would protect victims from serious offenders.

I will hand over to my colleague Charlie Pound to answer your technical question.

I have to disagree with you there. When bringing forward legislation, whether it is a member’s bill or a Scottish Government bill, if we were to pack up and say, “Hold on—this legislation is not right,” we would never bring forward any legislation at all. Right now, there is a big, deep increase in domestic abuse, and we need to do more to tackle that.

I listened to survivors and to organisations before introducing my bill. I take the issue of domestic abuse very seriously, which is why I brought the bill to Parliament—I believe that it is needed. We should not think, “Hold on—there was poor legislation in 2021.” If anything, that should make us see that we should pass good legislation, such as my bill, that will actually make a difference in protecting people.

I do not think for one minute that we should step back in our role as parliamentarians and think, “Hold on—we’re not going to be putting anything through.” It is up to the Scottish Government to answer the question as to why the 2021 act has not been implemented. I am sure that when I see Siobhian Brown, not long from now, I will ask her that question.

We have been elected, and we are in the Scottish Parliament, to make good legislation—I agree with that. However, we should not be scared to make any legislation that will help, because in Scotland we are absolutely amazing in respect of the historic legislation that we have passed in Parliament. We need to say that we have made good legislation as well. I hope that that helps.

I will bring in Charlie Pound on that technical issue.

I have had a good look to see what evidence is out there. Sex offenders are already subject to notification requirements, as you know, and there is significant evidence that they are less likely to reoffend. The latest statistics show that around 8.8 per cent of sex offenders went on to commit another offence, in comparison with 20.5 per cent for those convicted of domestic abuse.

I also highlight another area with regard to recent research on the effectiveness of multi-agency public protection arrangements that was carried out at Anglia Ruskin University. It found that people who receive management under MAPPA are less likely to reoffend than those who do not.

I also had a look at what is happening elsewhere in the world. In 2007, Spain introduced a comprehensive monitoring system in cases of gender violence, and, in 2015, it produced an online questionnaire to which more than 1,000 people responded, which found that 80 per cent of women were satisfied with the functioning of the system.

Although I have mentioned those areas, I note that we in the Scottish Parliament—I do not think that the committee needs reminding of this—are very good at passing world-leading legislation. I am asking for these provisions not because I am copying others but because I believe that we should be the first to introduce them. We were first when we passed legislation on things such as period poverty, among many other issues. This is a chance for the committee, the Scottish Government and MSPs to back the proposals and ensure that we will have world-leading legislation. People will look to us if we have in place notifications for domestic abuse.

It was published in 2025.