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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 986 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

We are probably talking about people who would be seen as gatekeepers in the process—those in social work departments, among others, who function as commissioners. Does logic suggest that it would be better for that role to sit with a national body than for it to sit locally?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

It is important to pull some of those threads together. Is there an opportunity in the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill to do that? Obviously, it is a Government bill, and we would not want to lose sight of some of those elements that are broadly supported by the learning disability sector and others.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

That follows on from Frank McKillop’s point about social work. There is a debate—we have heard evidence on both sides of the argument—about whether social work and children’s services should be in or out of the scope of the NCS. Is it important that the social work profession stays together, whatever the end point is, because of what has been said about transitions?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 December 2022

Paul O'Kane

I suppose that when the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman was before the committee she would have raised concerns about duplication of processes, if we had gone for a new national complaints procedure. The Scottish Social Services Council and the Care Inspectorate would probably say similar things.

Would the intention be that there would be a requirement to resource a new national complaints service—in essence, to spend money at national level on people to handle complaints, do an investigation and then feed back to whoever was providing the care? Is that the vision that has come through the consultation?

I know that Community Integrated Care said that there was concern that taking the complaints process out of the local context is perhaps not helpful. If there is time, perhaps Karen Sheridan might want to comment on that.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage1

Meeting date: 29 November 2022

Paul O'Kane

I will try to draw some of this together and think about the broad theme of how we will measure the success or otherwise of the bill. There has been a lot of discussion this morning, and with other witnesses, of Derek Feeley’s review and of how to achieve what was set out in that review. How will we assess and measure the success of the national care service bill, and will the current level of detail in the bill be sufficient to allow us to judge whether it has achieved its aims? I will start with Peter McCormick, and then Margaret McCarthy, Fanchea Kelly and Nick Price might want to come in.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage1

Meeting date: 29 November 2022

Paul O'Kane

Rachel, CCPS submission’s says:

“The Scottish Government appears to have taken the view that aspects of the detailed implementation of the Bill should be subject to codesign but that the overall approach to system redesign and structural reform should not.”

Do you think that that is back to front in some ways and that there should have been co-design in advance of the bill to inform what it looks like? How would you respond to those who have called for a pause on the bill to try to get it right?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage1

Meeting date: 29 November 2022

Paul O'Kane

In the Randolph Hill submission, you spoke about being concerned about an absence of criteria to judge success or failure. Do you recognise that there is not enough detail in the bill to measure success against?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage1

Meeting date: 29 November 2022

Paul O'Kane

I am interested in any of the other witnesses’ comments on the broad question about measuring success.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage1

Meeting date: 29 November 2022

Paul O'Kane

I want to follow on from that by pulling some of the threads together and going back to first principles with the Feeley review, which Rachel Cackett mentioned in a previous answer. Can the bill achieve what everyone agreed with regard to the review’s aims, or is there too much focus now on structure as opposed to the investment in social care that we have just talked about? I appreciate that that is a broad question, but I ask Rachel Cackett and then Karen Hedge to comment.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage1

Meeting date: 29 November 2022

Paul O'Kane

I wonder whether we can look at the relationships that already exist on a local level. Both CCPS and Scotland Excel have expressed concern that the focus on structure could be to the detriment of the existing local relationships. Rachel Cackett has commented on that, which was helpful, and I want to ask Julie Welsh to elaborate on the Scotland Excel concerns. Julie, do you feel that there is a risk that the bill could damage already well-established and successful local relationships?