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I think that the committee would agree with you on the need for better data; we would find that extremely helpful.

Dr Graham, when you spoke initially, you mentioned the need for clarity and more detail on the public interest test in particular, but perhaps also more generally. Could you answer the part of my question about whether there are lessons to be learned from comparable European countries and jurisdictions? The Government’s aim appears to be to reduce prisoner numbers and to ensure that the most serious offenders are in custody. Bail is given to people who have not been convicted of anything, yet. Do you think that there are lessons to be learned, given that the approach taken in Scotland appears to be different from the one taken in many other European countries?

Thank you.

That is very helpful—thank you.

It is not clear whether the effect of the legislation will be to change the number of people who are on bail, and it is not really clear how the public safety test will operate.

Fergus McNeill said that bail is used in Scotland quite differently from the way that it is used in other European countries. Proportionately, Scotland has the highest number of people in jail and, within that, the highest number of people on remand—the figure is now approaching 30 per cent, which is extremely high. I ask all the witnesses to comment, if they wish to do so, on the arguments for and against the approach that we take in Scotland, in which we send quite a lot of people into the prison system on remand. Are there lessons to be learned from other comparable jurisdictions?

On transcripts, I suspect that one of the issues is cost, but we really should be provided with that information. The committee is spending a huge amount of its time talking and asking about the issue, and there does not seem to be a willingness to share information.

As, I think, we will all remember, we discussed virtual trials at length during the bill process. We asked repeatedly for the kind of information that Rona Mackay is talking about, but it was not forthcoming. It took us an awful lot of time to get any information. I think that we concluded that far less was happening than was being presented, and I suspect that that is still the case.

As a committee, we should be concerned about being bounced into making permanent decisions when the evidence base is not there, so we should be robust in our correspondence with the cabinet secretary. We should outline the history and say that it is not that we would object to the proposed change in principle, but that it needs to be evidenced and subject to democratic scrutiny, given the serious and considerable implications for the justice system.

Whether we do that now or at a later stage, I think that we would want to put that in writing and go back to the point about why we are asking for that information.

Emma, have you had the opportunity to consider the concept of public safety? Do you have thoughts on how it might be better defined? Are you concerned that bringing in a new concept, with a lack of certainty about what the law is, might make things more difficult for victims?

Good morning, minister.

The Feeley review focused on adult social care. Where did the idea come from of bringing wider social work functions into the national care service?

I appreciate that the Government consultation mentioned that; however, it is quite clear from speaking to social workers and others who are involved in the sector that they feel that there has not been a full and proper consultation. Why was a full consultation not carried out with social workers, people who have lived experience and others before the bill was brought before the Parliament? Do you not think that there is a need for a full consultation to be carried out before the Parliament considers the issue?

Given that the Government has a parliamentary majority in the Parliament, will the bill be passed, if the Government parties vote it through, before decisions have been made about whether the national care service will include social work?

So there would not be scrutiny of that decision by the Parliament.