Seòmar agus comataidhean

I have a point about youth offending and community justice solutions. We will probably discuss this in more detail when we talk about the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The intention on the shift towards community justice under that bill is clear but those budgets are getting cut for the year starting in April.

The committee needs to examine how that money is spent and how even a relatively modest increase might reap rewards. I wonder whether we should consider incorporating that into the action plan. It is likely that the bill will be passed, but there is a risk that nothing will change unless there is a structural shift in where the money goes. We might want to monitor that more heavily than other areas that we are considering, particularly given that we have spent so much time scrutinising the bill.

I will be very brief. There are three issues that I want to put to you about which concerns are being raised. First, in relation to individuals currently in the estate, we understand that individuals will no longer be moved. Where fresh charges are brought, if those charges are of a violent or sexual nature and regardless of whether the charges relate to crimes against boys, men, girls or women, what approach will be taken?

Concerns have been raised with us, as politicians, about searches. For example, there are concerns about women prison officers being asked to conduct searches on individuals with male genitalia and, indeed, male prison officers being asked to conduct searches on trans men with female genitalia. Concerns are also being raised about the safety of trans men on the estate and the duty of care that you have when trans men are being kept on the male estate. Are you aware of those concerns and will you either respond today or get back to us after the meeting on those issues, given that you are saying that you are not aware of them and given the fact that it is people within the system who are raising those concerns with us? Are you aware of those concerns?

It is clear that there has been considerable investment in the women’s estate, with the opening of the two new community custody units and the new prison in Stirling, which we are yet to see. Given what we know about women’s offending patterns and the different nature of the women’s prison population compared with that of the male estate, do we need to assess whether those new facilities provide more appropriate facilities for women? I wonder whether we should incorporate their special needs, healthcare issues—which we are aware of—parental responsibilities and medical needs into that assessment. Particularly once Stirling prison is open, I wonder whether we should review whether the women’s estate delivers on the objectives that have been set over many decades.

This is very interesting. With the exception of the use of juries in cinemas, which has been pointed out by Lady Dorrian, and which I had not really thought of as virtual trials, although they obviously are, the main thing that comes through is how few virtual trials are taking place. Lady Dorrian’s comment that there has been no appreciable difference in the figures for conviction, acquittal or plea rates in the cases that had juries in cinemas was interesting. I suspect that we have probably seen that data in a different way in a different place, but we have not necessarily thought about where the juries were.

It is striking how few virtual summary trials have taken place. If any more long-term proposals were made, we would need a far more substantial evidence base. That is the position that the committee should take if any proposals come forward for something more substantial in legislation, which may happen. It is important to put down a marker that it should be evidence led, but at the moment the sample is too small.

I want to pick up on the issue that Fulton MacGregor raised about the use of handcuffs. I suspect that he knows far more than I do about the rules and guidelines that exist in terms of residential care in children’s homes and so on, but as far as I understand the issue, the regulations that exist in some settings do not exist in the transportation setting. It would be useful to have a briefing on that in order to get some detail on the issue before we start taking any evidence on it. I do not have the relevant background and I think that it might be helpful to the committee if, rather than ask witnesses about it, we were given copies of all the regulations that exist in various settings.

I wanted to raise an issue about remand, which comes up on page 13. It relates to some of the evidence that we have seen in relation to the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill. The remand rate for women is even higher than that for men—the rate of male unconvicted prisoners approaches 30 per cent of the prison population while, for women, the rate is 35 per cent to 40 per cent. I was quite alarmed when I learned that.

I know that the committee has had difficulty getting data around offending patterns, and I think that it might be useful to incorporate in our work the idea that we need to have a better understanding of who is in the prison population, both on remand and in the general population. It would be good to be able to track the differences that occur over time. My impression is that there are now more violent prisoners and prisoners who have been charged with or convicted of serious sexual offences such as rape and child sexual abuse, including historic cases, but we need to have a better understanding of that. Perhaps that could be incorporated in the work programme, because trying to get that information has been like pulling teeth. I know that the Scottish Parliament information centre has tried to provide what is available but, without more information, it is difficult for us to scrutinise the situation.

I also want to highlight the differences between the male estate and the female estate. We need to have an understanding of both.

I will be brief. I find it bizarre that we have discussed this so many times but are none the wiser about what the issues are. As I have said before, I suspect that the issues are about substantial cost. I used to work in the courts, so I know that getting transcripts was very expensive, although that was a long time ago. I suspect that very substantial costs are involved and that is why it has been difficult to get progress. I do not understand why the cabinet secretary and the Scottish Government are not sharing that information with us, so that we could have an informed discussion and debate. I do not understand why there is not more straight talking and transparency. I am guessing what the issues are, because that information is not being provided to us, and we are getting meaningless correspondence from the Scottish Government.

Okay—thank you.

I want to go back to the lessons learned review and what actually happened on 24 and 25 January. The facts as we understand it are that, when the offences took place and when the individual was initially charged, they were a man and had not self-defined as a woman at that point, but thereafter they self-defined as a woman. You say that the outcome of the review is that the 2014 policy was adhered to. Obviously, we have not seen the full lessons learned review; we have just seen a summary, but the summary is that the policy was adhered to. However, I think that you are also saying that the multidisciplinary assessment had not taken place as of 24 or 25 January.

That is our understanding of the position. What we do not understand is why the individual was not transferred to Barlinnie and held in segregation there pending the multidisciplinary risk assessment.

I am not asking you to identify individuals, but at what level was the decision taken in the case that we are discussing?

I ask for clarification on the timeline for the SSI and whether there is scope to take some of those issues up with the Scottish Government. It seems like a missed opportunity not to try to get some of the matters incorporated. I appreciate that this is probably the end of a very long process, but we have not been engaged with the process, so it would be appropriate to enter into correspondence to raise those issues and see whether this is an opportunity that can be taken.