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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 July 2025
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Displaying 984 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

Are you saying that the Scottish Government needs to put its money where its mouth is?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

My questions were going to be similar to John Swinney’s, so I will take forward that point about the disconnect between stated policy and reality on the ground. According to the Scottish Parliament information centre, the community justice budget is flat in real terms. You will know that this committee spent a considerable amount of the past year looking at the bail legislation that is coming through. It is clear from Angela Constance that the Scottish Government’s long-term strategy is to shift towards more community justice disposals as an attempt to reduce prison numbers or even keep prison numbers where they are, because the direction of travel is up, as we know.

Surely it is the politicians and the Government who drive change. Who else can possibly drive change if not the politicians who are put there to do it? Who else in the system is in a position to do that? What discussions have you as an organisation had with ministers about what they expect from you? If the money that the sector gets does not increase, are you being asked to do more? Is that being made explicit to you? Surely the courts will use community justice disposals only if they are there. Is that not the major factor that determines that our prison numbers continue to go up and, from what you say, that the sector is shrinking rather than expanding? Is that fair?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

If those alternatives were available in every part of the country, would they be used by the courts?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

My question is probably for Dr Bruce. Trauma-informed care is obviously an issue across the justice system, but I know that Dr Bruce has said that more of her work is associated with victims and witnesses. You have already said that the way that the prosecution takes evidence from a witness can have a big impact on the quality of the evidence that is given. Could you expand on that? What implications does that have for cross-examination by the defence? Witness preparation is not a major feature of our justice system. From the work that you have done with people who work with victims and witnesses, do you have any comments on issues that arise?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

Are you saying that sheriffs and others do not make community-based disposals because they think that the offender will not comply with them?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

Is an adversarial system able to deliver on some of the principles that you are setting out?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

You are saying that it is not just what happens in court, but what has happened all the way leading up to that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

I will try to be as brief as possible. I have two questions about trauma-informed training for key players in the courts.

My first question is to Laura Buchan and it relates to defence agents. I understand that, although trauma-informed training is available from organisations such as the Law Society of Scotland—and no doubt lots of other organisations, as well—it is not mandatory. A voluntary course is available as an option for continuous professional development. Would it be helpful if there was mandatory training for defence agents who appear in the criminal courts?

My second question is more to David Fraser and relates to judges, whether that is sheriffs or judges in the High Court. What quality of trauma-informed training is available to judges—whatever type of judge they are and whichever criminal court they are in? Does that need significant enhancement? Do more judges have a better understanding of trauma-informed practice than other people? How do we improve the overall standard? They must be the gatekeeper in the court. They are in charge of the court and are the only people who are able to insist on how courts are conducted.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Katy Clark

That is a specialist court. We are not just talking about that today.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 26 October 2023

Katy Clark

You have explained that, cabinet secretary. You have made very clear the differences in the system, but—