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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 April 2025
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Displaying 912 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

—which means that if the jury believes the evidence, there should be a conviction. That is what you would expect if the evidence is accepted by the court. Is that correct?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

So, yes—if the Crown evidence is accepted, there should be a conviction. We understand that many judges believe that they have been involved in sexual offences cases in which there could have been a conviction and it would have been justified, but the jury acquitted. Is it possible that we might get different outcomes if such cases were heard by a single judge? Given that this is a pilot—it is not changing the whole system; it is simply a pilot—do you think that that is worth looking at?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Is it your view that, if juries heard summary cases, conviction levels would be similar to those that exist at the moment?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Is it generally the case that jury trials tend to lead to more acquittals than non-jury cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

I think that we understand that. However, we know that, in Scotland, the way that the Crown marks cases is based on sufficiency of evidence—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

You seem to be saying that it often comes down to who is believed in court.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

You referred to a conviction rate of 42 per cent. I appreciate that there are different ways of looking at that, but I will take that as the figure. We know that the figure is slightly, but not massively, higher in England, and that the conviction rate for rape is significantly lower than the rate for many other types of offence. I appreciate that many other cases will be summary cases, which will not involve juries, and that those are different, but you specifically made a parallel with other serious crimes, which is not an argument that I have heard being put to the committee before.

Will you elaborate on that? If you are saying that we are making the wrong comparison because we are comparing the conviction rate in rape cases with other forms of crime, what types of crime would make a fairer comparison? Would it be, for example, complex fraud or murder? What direction would you point us in, to look at those kinds of conviction levels?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Let us exclude them, then. What kind of cases do you think we should be comparing them with?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

Surely, in a murder case, which is a very serious case, the Crown will proceed if there is sufficiency of evidence. That would be the test that it would apply in a murder case.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Katy Clark

You are saying that you do not think that single-judge trials are the solution. Is there any solution if you believe that it is inevitable that conviction rates will be lower for rape? Is there anything that this Parliament should do to change how the process works in order to improve conviction rates, given that we know that there is a sufficiency of evidence in the cases that are taken forward by the Crown?