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Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 30 November 2023
Katy Clark
The paper in which you reflect on your experiences is really helpful. You refer to Westminster’s
“less than glorious track record”
on social security benefits. It is fair to say that many of us have quite high expectations of what might be possible in Scotland. Indeed, in your paper, you talk about those
“high expectations bumping up against”
implicit and explicit constraints.
I am somebody who looks at outcomes. One of the surprises to me is, despite what the cabinet secretary said earlier, the frustration and experience of many claimants, who do not feel that the outcomes are much different from before. They still have to wait lengthy periods for benefits and, sometimes, those benefits are not granted.
There are two categories, I suppose. There is the creation of new benefits such as the Scottish child payment, and there is the migration of existing benefits. In relation to the latter, what are the lessons from our experiences so far about how we do that better—we do not want to just mirror what comes from down south—and how do we speed up the process to get to a better outcome? I know that a lot of that is about money, but perhaps we can put money to one side and focus on the aspects that are not about money.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 30 November 2023
Katy Clark
Surely the point is that the council would do work to inform decisions on eligibility. Would that not add to the policy process?
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 30 November 2023
Katy Clark
Surely the lesson that we have learned from previous experience is that, if we do not start the work soon and do it as quickly as possible, we end up taking on the schemes that already exist for extended periods. Surely we now have an opportunity. Whether it is an advisory group or a council—whatever we call it—we should surely try to implement as soon as possible a body that would do the work to inform the policy approach. What is the timeline?
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 30 November 2023
Katy Clark
Let us presume that the consultation says that work needs to be done to inform a new benefit. What would the cabinet secretary’s timescale be for her stakeholder advisory group? How quickly will that work start?
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 30 November 2023
Katy Clark
I am asking about what lessons you think have been learned over the past few years, so that we better migrate benefits in future to provide a quicker process to get to what might be a better outcome.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 30 November 2023
Katy Clark
Yes. It has given a perspective, which is helpful.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2023
Katy Clark
My question is for Linda Somerville and is about the composition of the council. The STUC submission suggests that 50 per cent of the body should be trade union representatives. I appreciate that different unions operate in different sectors and will have knowledge of different occupations, but I ask Linda to explain why 50 per cent is the right level and say a bit more about what the overall composition of the body should be. We understand that the United Kingdom body is dominated by people from scientific and academic backgrounds.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2023
Katy Clark
No. The composition of the council is a wide issue, but I fully understand the points that Linda is making.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2023
Katy Clark
No. We can think about that issue later. That is helpful.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee
Meeting date: 23 November 2023
Katy Clark
As the witnesses will appreciate, the committee has been looking at whether setting up a new council in Scotland would add value or whether there would be duplication with IIAC’s current role.
We have heard evidence in relation to long Covid, firefighter cancers and so on. How would the new council relate to the existing UK body? How can we ensure that there is added value and avoid duplication?
I will perhaps ask the professor first—although you are in the room, deputy convener, so you will know who wants to come in.